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Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own eyes, there is the least of real liberty
Henry M. Robert

Nina KARPACHOVA:"I will do everything possible so that the state obeys the laws"

8 December, 1998 - 00:00

The meeting with Verkhovna Rada Human Rights Ombudsman Nina Karpachova
took place on the birthday of this institution. Seven months is a critical
period for any newborn, but this is also the time when they can say with
confidence that it will live. Despite official indifference and financial
starvation, the Ombudsman's Office carries out its daily work.

Today, the number one issue is aiding orphans in Transcarpathia, which
is organized through an operational project with the UN Office of the High
Commissioner on Refugees. Given the attention and support foreign states
accord the Ukrainian Ombudsman, this is almost the only institution in
Ukraine in which special hopes are placed - and, for that matter, by Ukrainian
citizens as well. In fact, the Ombudsman's Office received over 5000 petitions
from citizens who have lost faith in the authorities.

"Ms. Karpacheva, as we know, you have a meeting scheduled with the
President of Ukraine to settle financial issues relating to the activity
of the institution of your post. Can you say that now this issue has been
completely settled?"

"We did arrange for a meeting with the President, and I have been waiting
for such meeting for a long time, although I have the right in an emergency
to demand an immediate meeting with top officials.

"For Ukrainian citizens and authorities this human rights institution
is a very strange entity that even now many do not fully understand its
nature. I expect that with your help we will be able to attain the goal
we have enshrined in the law. Actually, proper conditions for our work
have not yet been created. I have received over 5000 letters, and daily
we receive from 70 to 100 visitors, while we do not have even a room for
this. Since we have only few rooms, we cannot hire all the staff we need.
Real support comes only from international organizations and foreign ambassadors.
I have had meetings with ambassadors of the 24 most developed European
countries, who have expressed their willingness to support this new institution
financially, and most of all morally. Currently, our office receives technical
assistance from the Dutch Embassy. In six months we have not got a kopiyka
for our work. I thank all my colleagues who have supported what we have
tried to do."

"Last October, the court settled the major case of Larysa Khorolets,
Ukrainian House (Ukrayinsky Dim) General Director against the Cabinet for
her unjust dismissal. Although the court took a fair decision, it has not
been carried out. How do you view this problem?"

"You want to know all the secrets of my job. Well, frankness calls for
frankness: this was a unique case of the first woman minister in independent
Ukraine who was simply thrown overboard, struck out from the life of Ukrayinsky
Dim. I do not even mention the moral aspect of this case. A representative
of the Human Rights Envoy personally attended court sessions as an observer
in the case where the judge was afraid to pass a decision according to
the law. It was only because of our supervision that a just decision was
handed down. But you know that so far justice has not triumphed, despite
the just decision passed by the court. However, this issue lies within
the competence of the institutions enforcing court decisions, the Ministry
of Justice and Supreme Court of Ukraine."

"As we know, your report on preventing white slavery in Ukraine evoked
the widest imaginable response in Europe. To what degree was this a surprise
for old Europe?"

"I was invited to deliver a report to representatives of the Council
of Europe member-states and NGOs, as the author of the law on criminal
responsibility for trade in humans, which includes exporting young women
for prostitution. It turned out that only a few European countries have
legislation preventing trade in human beings. Ukraine was involved in this
international crime both as a donor and a transit country. The Council
of Europe adopted our law as a model for the further elaboration of a European
convention against trafficking in women. I consider this issue a priority
in my work, and I am now establishing a coordinating council under the
Ombudsman. The task of the council will be to prevent trade in humans,
primarily in women and children. Based on my initiative, this issue was
also prioritized in the activity of the Organization for Security and Cooperation
in Europe (OSCE). Also, we are now developing programs for further cooperation
with the International Migration Organization. Incidentally, the understanding
of these issues was displayed to me both in Europe and Asia."

"You have been saying that it is the bureaucrats who today rule this
country. Do you think that the Ombudsman should react towards the illegal
methods which the Premier applied for knocking out debts?"

"I think the point is totally different: it was necessary to draw public
attention to the flagrant violation of citizen's rights concerning nonpayment
of their wages and salaries."

"But, surely, shouldn't this have been done in accordance with the
law?"

"Wages and salaries had not been paid in accordance with the law. Such
methods are a means of administrative influence. We do not have enough
experience in using economic leverage yet. The Ombudsman cannot supplant
state administrative bodies. And when the issue concerns protecting the
rights of millions, implementation of administrative measures could be
justified."

"But don't you think that the reputation of any executive depends
on her/his strict adherence to the rules of civilized coexistence, even
under conditions when it seems like the end justifies the means? Do you
think that the psychological effect of your activity is associated with
unconditionally safeguarding human rights?"

"I hope this does not have relevance to the specific issue with which
your colleagues are trying to drive me into a corner: is Pustovoitenko
guilty or not? To answer it, I should analyze all the consequences, and
not only the moral aspect of the problem, which aspect by the way does
not seem at all inconsistent. Another question which arises is what then
is the level of the legal consciousness of managers of enterprises. None
of the managers present at the Ukrayina Palace of Culture turned to me
(although I was there, too), because none of them obviously thought that
in this case their rights were violated. None of them went to court either,
for those people know only too well why they are talked to in such a way."

"As journalists we are concerned with protection of the freedom of
expression in Ukraine. We all remember what happened to journalist Oleksandrov,
who forfeited the right to carry out journalistic activity for five years
according to a court decision, and also other cases, with Pravda Ukrayiny,
Kievskie Vedomosti, etc. Do journalists or individual publications
turn to you asking to safeguard their rights? And are you in position to
handle this spectrum of problems?"

"I should remind you that we have been in existence for too short a
time to cover the whole spectrum of problems that arise. But in some cases
we have started proceedings. Yes, representatives of Kievskie Vedomosti
did turn to us. At a certain point we rendered support. I will not disclose
the mechanisms of my work. I am sure that soon the time will come when
it will not be easy for the mass media to protect their freedom of expression
without turning to the Ombudsman. I wish I was wrong, but the unlimited
financial responsibility of the mass media for the freedom of expression
is itself a flagrant violation of the right for the mass media to exist.
I have pointed out this to lawmakers more than once."

"Do you follow the applications of Ukrainian citizens to the European
Court of Human Rights?"

"This is a very serious question. Having failed to get their rights
protected within the domestic legal system, our citizens have to apply
to the European Court or UN Commission on Human Rights. According to the
EU, about one thousand applications have thus far been received from Ukrainian
citizens. Much hope is placed in the European Court of Human Rights. But
few are aware that not all categories of cases fall within its competence.
I have begun to cooperate with trade unions in order to use the mechanisms
of the International Labor Organization (ILO) to safeguard citizens' right
to be paid their wages and salaries timely and in the full volume. We had
a meeting with Chairman of Parliamentary Committee for Social Policy and
Labor Yevhen Marchuk and we agreed to cooperate in the field of civil rights
protection. And if there had been at least one ILO decision, the situation
with Ukrayina Palace would not have arisen. I will do everything possible
so that the state obeys the laws. The ombudsmen in neighboring countries
cannot possibly comprehend why our peasants have not held money in their
hands for several years already? And the employees of the Ombudsman apparatus
are also not paid their salaries yet. The application of the European Human
Rights Convention, which so far has not been officially published, is also
problematical. The translation provided by the Foreign Ministry has a number
of inaccuracies. For instance, the word "entity" was translated as "person."
Thus, if the subjects applying to court are corporate entities, they will
not be able to exercise their right of application."

"What is the state of affairs with safeguarding rights of Ukrainian
citizens outside Ukraine?"

"International protection of the rights of Ukrainian citizens lies within
the competence of the Foreign Ministry, and primarily, its Consular Department.
There is also a rapid response unit at the Ministry. I think you know of
many cases falling into this category, which the Ombudsman also has to
handle. The most recent concerns the rights of a Ukrainian citizen in China.
Recently, I made a business trip there to meet this person. He has been
incarcerated under terrible conditions for a year and a half without any
sentence being passed. A young man who has undergone several operations
has for a year and a half had to sleep on a cement floor and gets only
two bowls of rice a day to eat. I have met with Chinese Ambassador Chou
Tsao Peng and the boy's family. I have also sent a letter to the leader
of the People's Republic of China.

The issue concerning our citizens taken as hostages in Nigeria remains
a very burning one for us. We do not have a diplomatic mission in Nigeria,
and I appealed for help not only to Ukrainian authorities, but also to
the Russian President. Thanks to the assistance of the Russian Embassy,
23 hostages have returned to Ukraine. But four of our citizens are still
held in Nigeria. In addition, almost 130 ships with Ukrainian crews have
been impounded abroad in the last few years. In fact this is the covert
sale of Ukrainian ships. Every day I receive telephone calls from seamen
who became hostages of indifferent authorities in various parts of the
world. Today, I have talked to the captain of the Sviet, a steamship detained
in the Suez Canal just like the Global Sky. The Human Rights Envoy will
give the details of this conversation in her report to Parliament. When
we can at least raise our voice in defense of our citizens, we must do
so."

 

 

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