“In Canada Ukraine has got a great friend”

A delegation of the Canadian parliament, led by Stephen FUHR, chairman of the Standing Committee on National Defense, visited Ukraine recently. Fuhr is a former pilot of the Canadian Air Force, he has flown CF-18 fighters and retired in the rank of major in 2009. Afterwards Fuhr joined a technology company based in Kelowna, British Columbia. The company, SkyTrac Systems, develops and commercializes flight following, flight data, and communication technology solutions for the aviation industry in Canada and internationally. As Director for Business Development and later CEO, Fuhr ensured the company’s financial success in a complex economic situation. In 2015 he decided to try himself as a Liberal politician and was elected to represent the riding (constituency) of Kelowna – Lake Country at the House of Commons.

In his trip to Ukraine he was accompanied by James BEZAN, MP from the opposition Conservative Party. Both agreed for an interview to The Day. Our conversation started from a question concerning the goal of the trip.

“WE WANTED TO DEMONSTRATE CANADA’S SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE”

S.F.: “Before this we visited Brussels and also Latvia, where Canadian troops are stationed. As there are a lot of new faces on our committee, we would like to acquaint them with the situation and make them think how to promote relations with Ukraine to a new level. This requires expertise and experience. Besides, we wanted to demonstrate Canada’s support for Ukraine.”

J.B.: “NATO as an organization attaches great importance to this region. Firstly, by demonstrating its military presence after Russia’s aggression, and secondly, after the change of leadership in the US we wanted to see what effect might this have on the situation, and how Canada fits in.”

“THE MAGNITSKY BILL IS UP TO REPORT STAGE AND THE THIRD READING”

Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko visited Canada recently and received a very warm welcome. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau confirmed Canada’s support for Ukraine in its confrontation with Russia and announced that the sanctions against the Russian Federation would remain in force. Don’t you think now it is a good time to intensify pressure on Moscow to force it to comply with the Minsk accords and respect the norms of international law, which it grossly violated in 2014?

S.F.: “We are interested to solve this conflict by diplomatic means. Canada is doing everything possible and is willing to do even more.”

J.B.: “In particular, we are now considering the Magnitsky Act. And this act gives more powers to the Canadian government to sanction those individuals who are abusing human rights, as well as using their positions of authority to enrich themselves. They could be applied against Russia, China, Venezuela, Vietnam, and certainly North Korea. It certainly has a global aspect to it, but it is about holding those corrupt foreign officials to account. In Canada, both under the previous, Conservative government, and the current Liberal government, we are working with our allies to keep pressure on Russia, in particular to force it to comply with the Minsk Agreement. If there ever was hope of getting that implemented, I think it would have been done by now. I do not know if there is a political will at Kremlin. We also call on our allies to increase the pressure on Russia.”

How is the passing of this act going?

J.B.: “The Magnitsky Bill C-267 is up to report stage and the third reading on October 2. It’s already going through the committee. It is already been amended with the input from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. My hope is that we will have this bill in October in the House of Commons, and we will send it back to the Senate with the amendments, and hopefully early in 2018 it becomes law.”

What kind of amendments did the Ministry of Foreign Affairs make?

J.B.: “In some ways it clarified exactly how the law will be used. It also provided proper oversight from a government standpoint, and also opened up the avenue for individuals to present their case, in case they think they are wrongfully added to the list. I guess the ability to challenge the list is democratic and lawful, something that I would support. Moreover, the aim of the law supported by my party is to put an end to corruption and violation of human rights, and that is why we are satisfied with those amendments.”

“IT WOULD TAKE SEVERAL WEEKS TO ADD UKRAINE TO THE AUTOMATIC FIREARMS COUNTRY CONTROL LIST”

An article published by The Globe and Mail quotes Mr. Trudeau as saying that he absolutely supported the putting of our country to the Automatic Firearms Country Control List, a list of countries which are allowed to purchase weapons from Canada. Yet (as was emphasized before), a candidate must meet certain criteria. Could you please explain which exactly criteria are meant?

S.F.: “I know there’s a process, there were recent comments from the prime minister on the will to start the process, but I am not familiar with the process and criteria.”

J.B.: “Back under the Harper government we said we want Ukraine on this list, and we want to provide it with lethal defensive weapons. Regulations would need to be put in place by the government of Canada. There would be a timeline through that, but not more than a few months. And once a will is there, it will be a matter of weeks, not years to get the list amended to include Ukraine.”

“UKRAINE’S ACCESSION TO NATO WOULD BE A DETERRENCE TO FURTHER RUSSIAN AGGRESSION”

What do you think about the possibility for Ukraine to join NATO before 2020?

S.F.: “We are certainly an ally of Ukraine, and I think it is a longer distance between where you are right now and where you need to be to get into NATO, based on what we have learned so far, I am not an expert on that. Based on what I have learned, I do not know if it can happen by 2020, there are a lot of obstacles on the way. But it will take some time, and it does not mean that every effort that is put towards capacity building, professionalizing, capability building should be in line with the ultimate goal of getting to NATO standards. There is a ton of things, from language to capability addition, and it takes a long time. So even if it does not happen in 2020, it should not deter Ukraine from going as hard as it can towards that ultimate goal of being a member of NATO.”

Don’t you think that Ukraine’s accession to NATO would become a deterrent for Russia, which might realize it has no chance competing with the Alliance, and it would leave Ukraine alone? Thus the West might demonstrate its unity.

S.F.: “On the one hand, the question remains if the criteria for accession would or would not have been met by that time. Of course, the balance of powers would shift if Ukraine should join.”

J.B.: “Canada has always been supporting Ukraine’s NATO aspiration, regardless of who is in power, and we will continue to assist Ukraine in reaching those targets. Is 2020 reasonable? Is it logistically possible? Based on what we have learned just today, there is no question that NATO participation with Ukraine is a deterrence to further Russian aggression. But the balancing act, you know, is that Ukraine on reformation and anti-corruption files still has a lot of work to do.”

“I HOPE PEOPLE IN THE KREMLIN WILL REALIZE THEY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE BY INVADING UKRAINE”

Kurt Volker, US Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations, said in an interview to Ukrainian media that at present the major task is to convince Russia that supporting separatists in Donbas, and involvement in this conflict, is not beneficial to it. Do you think Russia indeed could change its mind and withdraw its troops and weapons from Donbas?

J.B.: “I would say that no one knows what is going on in Vladimir Putin’s head. Nobody can trust what is happening among the autocrats in the Kremlin. Kleptocrats is a better way to call them. I think Russia has to understand that their actions in Donbas and their illegal occupation of Crimea have hurt their credibility on the world stage. Their own population is going to be ever more weary. He [Putin] is actually strengthening the unity of NATO and others in the region against Russia expanding its sphere of influence. People in the Kremlin are pretty crafty, but I hope they will realize they have made a mistake by invading Ukraine.”

S.F.: “There are some 450 Canadian soldiers stationed in Latvia; along with the soldiers of five other nations on the eastern flank of NATO they should be a big symbol of the West’s objecting to Russian aggression.”

“ANY SIGN OF THE ALLIANCE BACKING OFF WILL PROVOKE PUTIN TO START FORWARD AGAIN”

One can often hear from some Western experts that Russia is indispensable in creating Euro-Atlantic security architecture. Don’t you think that before raising this issue, it is necessary that Russia reverse its actions and return to the norms of international law? In particular, that it stop its aggression in the east of Ukraine and give Crimea back?

J.B.: “Putin is provoked by weakness, so any sign of the Alliance backing off will provoke him to start forward again. I think the pressure has to be maintained. One thing that we have learned is that the imperialist views and aspirations in the Kremlin have not changed over the past century. We have to be incredibly careful on how we deal with them in a diplomatic sense. They are a major world player, there is no questioning that. We are partner with them in the Arctic Council, we have to work with them from the standpoint of environmental concerns, transportation, search and rescue, disaster assistance… There is a whole gamut there. But we still have to understand that lessons learned over the last three years, should govern how we move forward in the future. Indeed, how can we talk with Russia about new security architecture if it turned its back on the Budapest Memorandum and completely violated the UN Charter? If they want to respect the rule of law, be a democratic nation, and return back to the world order, they have to get out of Ukraine first and foremost.”

“RUSSIAN OCCUPATION IS ILLEGITIMATE AND IT NEEDS TO END”

What would you like to wish to The Day’s readers?

S.F.: “Just like I remarked at the start of the interview, the goal of this trip for a large part is to demonstrate support for Ukraine. And I got the impression after a meeting with the minister of defense of Ukraine and the parliamentary invitations that we got, that it was important to them that we come here, so we can keep this topic alive, and not only in our parliament but in our constituencies. We want to make sure that this issue of the Russian occupation does not become normal because it lasts a long time. It is illegitimate, it is illegal, it needs to end, and the best way we can deal with that is just to continue to put pressure on Russia.”

J.B.: “It is also immoral, what they have done. And a part of our job here, too, is taking this information together and sharing it with our colleagues, sharing it with Canadians, so that they understand what is still happening in Ukraine. And proceeding from this, give an even more effective support to Kyiv.”