EU perspectives without skepticism

On June 10 the first deputy foreign minister of the Czech Republic Jiri SCHNEIDER visited Ukraine.

This was the first visit of a top-level Czech official to our country after the recent diplomatic scandal between Prague and Kyiv. Despite the busy schedule, the Czech diplomat found time for an exclusive interview to The Day.

You came here. Does it mean that indeed, as the director of the information department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine said, the diplomatic conflict between our countries is resolved? And this diplomatic swap has finished and we will see in the near future a new ambassador of the Czech Republic here in Ukraine.

“I would very much like to see our ambassador here as soon as possible, that was the message I came with, so that we can work with full strength on our acti­vities. We have some concrete projects for Ukraine in the framework of the Eastern Partnership and the Visegrad presidency, and we would like to continue. I think conflicts and misunderstandings happen, but we keep walking and working with Ukraine, as we’ve done for last almost two decades.”

So you reached an agreement for the new ambassador?

“We hope to get it very soon.”

Is there any connection between the Havrylyshyn case and the diplomatic scandal between our countries?

“I think enough has been said publicly about that and I don’t have a reason to make any additional comment.”

We know that the president of the Czech Republic is skeptical about the EU, and perhaps Ukraine’s membership perspective. But does this conflict influence the vision of Ukraine’s EU membership perspective?

“Regardless of what you call a conflict, I’m not a spokesperson of our president but my understanding is that our president is critical of some aspects of European integration. But I have never heard of any criticism vis-a-vis enlargement policy. This is one of the policies our president strongly endorses. And it’s based on our experience. I think we enjoyed enlargement, and I think other countries should enjoy it as well. No matter how critical we are about some aspects of the European integration. In principle, this is a good development and any country which wishes to join the European Union should have a chance to do so. So I don’t see that skepticism vis-a-vis Ukraine’s rapprochement towards Europe.”

But there is an understanding in your country that indeed inside Ukraine there is some kind of a fight: one side tries to lead Ukraine to the EU, while the other side goes to Russia and the Customs Union. So there is a need to help, despite the conflict, the Ukrainian go­vernment to move toward the EU.

“Let me answer in two points. First of all, I was very pleased to hear your president recently speaking at the meeting of Central European presidents in Warsaw in a very positive way about the Ukrainian European vector, making concrete steps in that direction, and was very positive about those countries he mentioned explicitly, the Visegrad countries, endorsing and supporting Ukraine in this direction. And also I was pleased to hear that the president of Ukraine doesn’t see any contradiction between having good neighborly relations with Russia and keeping Ukraine on the European vector. So, as I said, I was pleased and I take this as an encouraging message which we can subscribe to fully. And in a more practical way, that’s what we discussed at our talks in the foreign mi­nistry. There are some encouraging signs of progress in concrete negotiations, for example, the free trade agreement. So I think Ukraine has a unique opportunity these days. There is a specific political direction, there are concrete ongoing negotiations, and it’s a unique setting in the European Union, where, I’d say, there are more vocal advocates of Ukraine’s rapprochement with Europe. Then comes Poland, which is holding the presidency, and I see only opportunities. But, of course, opportunities can be missed.”

But anyway, many Ukrainians think that Europe should encourage Ukraine more in this direction, taking into account that Russia uses a lot of pressure to make us join the Customs Union.

“I think this is a Ukrainian choice: what is better for Ukraine and for Ukrainian citizens. I think there are a lot of Ukrainian citizens either working or doing business abroad both in Europe and in Russia. And I think it’s a Ukrainian choice. I heard what your president said, that he doesn’t see any kind of contradiction ‘either… or,’ but of course, in terms of agreements, I think some ideas are mutually exclusive. But the choice is being done here, and I think Ukrainian ci­ti­zens and companies have enough information on what is more beneficial, what opens more opportunities for them, and it’s up to them. And as I heard the president, I think the choice is clear.”

Talking about the Visegrad. On May 12 there was a decision of the Vise­grad group to create a Visegrad Battle Group. Does it mean that the four countries are trying to implement the idea of Pilsudski’s intermarum [a federal state covering much of Central Europe. – Ed.]?

“There’s no geopolitics in that. It’s a very modest pragmatic project. First of all, the Battle Group concept is not a new concept, it’s being introduced by the European Union as a concept to have a military capability to do things on the mandate of the Security Council of the United Nations: peacekeeping, peacemaking, etc. And to have the capacity to do that. I think there are already almost 20 various settings, most of them multinational, inside the European Union, and this is the first chance to create one within the Visegrad group. Why is this happening now? Because of bud­ge­tary constraints, and countries are, I’d say, more humble in their aspirations, and they are more open to share the burden and to save the resources by doing things together. So the plan is not for next year, and there is a rotating principle, that every six months there is a certain battle group which is available for the European Union. So no geopolitics and no historical connotations, just a modest way of trying to do something together. There have been some ambitious plans in the past, which proved to be difficult to achieve, like having joint air defenses for Visegrad, but it proved to be quite difficult to achieve. I think that what is achievable is joint training and exercising, which can save some money as opposed to when the countries are doing it on their own.”

What if this group invites Ukraine, because Ukraine has a lot of potential?

“By the way, there was a Polish-Ukrainian battalion, and I think there was an attempt to have a battle group with Ukraine. I think there is no closed concept, it’s an inclusive concept, and I think we’ll be more than happy if Ukraine joins the EU defense operations and also the NATO defense operations. I’m sure that there are some other areas, like anti-piracy operations where Ukrai­ne can be a very useful partner, not speaking about airlifts. Ukraine is a famous provider of airlifts to many nations because of its air capabilities.”

What should Ukraine do for the Eastern Partnership summit to be successful?

“The Eastern Partnership cannot be successful without Ukraine being fully onboard. I mean, initially Ukraine was cautious about the Eastern Partnership and there were two types of criticism. The first was ‘if it’s not membership, we’re not interested,’ while the second was ‘wait a minute, Ukraine deserves a special relationship, not as part of a group.’ I think we are now entering a very pragmatic phase, with the Ukrai­nian go­vernment realizing that this is not everything, but it does provide some opportunities — opportunities for improving bilateral relations with the European Union and having them produce some concrete effects. So if Ukraine is fully present at the concept and endorses it, I think then we will have success. I’d like me to be clear: without Ukraine the Eastern Partnership cannot be a success.”

Does your country support the idea of giving Ukraine membership perspectives?

I think formal things are not important to us, but we are absolutely clear, as I said at the beginning, that this is the European neighborhood, all the countries in the European neighborhood are European countries, and according to this Article 49, I think these countries can be members of the European Union. They have a European perspective. So, for us it’s not a problem that it will be mentioned anyhow, so we are not among those who oppose it. I mean, for us this is by default. Of course, Ukraine has a European perspective and it depends on all of us, albeit primarily on Ukraine, how far off this perspective is — whether we need binoculars to see them or whether we can see them without glasses.”

What do you think about dates? You know, Azarov mentioned 2022 as the date of entering the EU, but recently Basescu said that by this date only Moldova and Turkey would be members.

“I would strongly discourage talking about any dates, because I remember when we started, we actually applied for full membership in 1995. I mean if there were talks, okay, 2000, they’d say: ‘Oh, it’s too late!’ I mean this is ridiculous. What is important for the government of Ukraine is to set a goal they want to achieve, but this is not a game where you can set a date and then you start raising expectations. And this is a completely false direction for that. So I would concentrate on the substance, and this is a continuous process; the membership is, I would say, the final rubberstamp, but the process is ongoing, so let’s focus on the process, as I said. The free trade agreement is on good track now, and there are many other areas where you can make measu­rable progress, so setting a final date doesn’t make sense.”