Grigol KATAMADZE: “ FRIENDS LIKE UKRAINE ARE WORTH SEEKING ”

The characteristic feature of Georgia is that, despite all recent developments, including a civil war, there are no disputes in Georgian society about the country’s European choice or independence. The Communists have lost much influence on politics. In its turn, according to Grigol KATAMADZE, Georgia’s ambassador to Ukraine, Georgia is grateful to Ukraine for its contribution to the settlement of conflict in Abkhazia and formation of the army, and just for the still-continuing relations between the two nations. Ambassador Katamadze diplomatically declined to discuss with The Day’s journalists the probability of closer political consultations within GUUAM, yet accepting in principle that they are possible, and noted that “wholesome competition is always good.”

“What is Georgia’s strategy in GUUAM which is now, after the recent Yalta summit, an organization?”

“GUUAM has become a reality and is now a sub-regional organization. The member states strive, proceeding from their common goals and helping each other within its framework, to increase their economic development level and well-being of our nations and jointly integrate in the European and worldwide structures. Our vision is that this is one of the association’s top priorities, which was reflected in the joint communiquО and the Yalta Charter. I would also like to point out (this was emphasized more than once by the member- states’ presidents) that GUUAM by no means challenges any other international organization or the interests of any individual countries. On the contrary, GUUAM will strive to complement many other organizations.”

“Why do you think the Yalta summit failed to achieve what we in Ukraine hoped for most, that is, signing a free trade area agreement?”

“Georgia initiated a free trade area agreement, and I would not like to speak of it in the past tense as hoped for. The agreement on a free trade area was not properly drafted by experts. I had an opportunity to take part in the work of experts and so I am not inclined to believe in any pressure exerted by, say, Russia.

“The presidents instructed the experts to continue serious consultations. And I think there are ample grounds to believe that we will be able to sign this agreement before the end of this year. Everybody wants this. What will also further this cause, in my opinion, is the Uzbek initiative to hold a meeting of the business circles of not only GUUAM but also other interested parties, such as the European structures and financial organizations, including the Asian Development Bank.”

“Two associations, GUUAM and the Eurasian Community, have now arisen in the CIS. How would you assess the prospects of rivalry between them for reviving the Great Silk Road?”

“Wholesome competition is always good. But GUUAM will not rival any other international organizations. Many segments of this Great Silk Road, passing through our countries, are already working today. In addition, GUUAM is an association open to cooperation with any international organizations and any states.

“Take a small example: in 1996 very few believed in the prospects of ferry communication between Ukraine and Georgia, with the ferry being utilized by a meager 25% of capacity in 1999. But while the Illichevsk-Poti ferry transported 47,000 tons in the first quarter of 2000, it brought this figure up to 87,000 tons in the first quarter of this year owing to an agreement on reducing cargo duties.

“Slovakia has shown interest in cooperating with GUUAM, with Rumania and Bulgaria having announced such interest earlier. Signing a free trade area agreement will give an impulse for arousing the interest of other countries.”

“How would you assess the possibility of GUUAM’s coordinated policies toward NATO in the light of Georgia’s desire to integrate in European and Euro- Atlantic structures?”

“Indeed, our state’s strategy is try to integrate in the European and Atlantic structures as soon as possible. As to coordinated actions, you know that the GUUAM Charter lays down, among other things, consultations among our countries. But I do not think this kind of coordination within the GUUAM framework is necessary at this stage.”

“Eduard Shevardnadze said Georgia intends to knock at NATO’s door by 2005. Is your country going to join the alliance after that?”

“In-depth cooperation with NATO is indeed one of the priorities of our foreign policy. We actively participate in various programs, including Partnership for Peace. But I would rather not look that far.”

“Are relations between Georgia and Russia a subject of internal political struggle in your country or can we say you take a common stand?”

“We try to find a common language and establish equal and good relations with all our neighbors. It is a bit different question what result we have achieved, including our relations with Russia. I think the Georgian attitude toward the great neighbor is unequivocal: everyone understands very well that we must maintain a good and equal relationship with Russia. However, while the Georgian parliament promptly ratified the Treaty on Friendship and Cooperation signed by presidents Yeltsin and Shevardnadze in 1994, the Russian State Duma has long postponed its ratification. Last year, on our president’s initiative, the leaders of our two countries expressed readiness to sign a new framework treaty because of the new realities that have emerged since 1994. If this treaty is to be signed and ratified in the immediate future, this will bring our relations back to normal. We have managed to establish excellent relations with the neighboring Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Turkey, and we picture no other relations with Russia than those based on good partnership.”

“Our colleagues, Georgian journalists, as well as representatives of governmental and non- governmental organizations have said they are disappointed with the current relationship between Georgia and Russia but simultaneously hope Georgia and Russia will construct their relations on somewhat different imperatives.”

“Georgia and Ukraine maintain a very special relationship. And we would not have this kind of relations, if the common people did not gravitate toward each other on an informal level. For instance, 1994 was one of the hardest years for Georgia. It is in that year that Ukraine opened its embassy in Georgia, the only foreign diplomatic representation that was not guarded for several months. What really guarded the Ukrainian ambassador in Georgia was your blue-and-yellow flag. I don’t want to exaggerate, but such friends as Ukraine are worth seeking. And vice versa.”

“Our countries seem to have understood the necessity of restoring their positions on each other’s markets.”

“In the first years after the USSR collapsed we in fact lost the Ukrainian market, as well as Ukraine lost ours. But now traditional Georgian products are finding their way back to Ukraine. There is a certain upward trend in the trade and economic relations. Trade turnover between our countries reached $29 million in the first five months of 2001, with exports from Ukraine accounting for 25 million of these.”

“Do you think Ukraine can do more to reach a settlement in Abkhazia?”

“Ukraine has already taken a big step on the difficult road of settling this conflict. I would like to recall the visit of Ukraine’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Anatoly Zlenko to Tbilisi and then to Sukhumi shortly before the Yalta Georgian-Abkhazian meeting, and the Yalta meeting itself that drew world attention to this problem. I remember the way such meetings were held before. Thanks to Ukrainian efforts, this meeting allowed the most irreconcilable, those who did not want to speak to each other at all, to communicate.

“Agreements were reached on the circulation of the Abkhazian press all over Georgia and of the Georgian press all over Abkhazia, and on academic exchanges. Apart from making the main efforts, the Ukrainian side contributed to the activation of grass-root diplomacy.

“In my opinion, although Ukraine does not mediate the negotiations, it is still doing its best to give advice or offer some other help. This approach is highly valued both in both Tbilisi and Sukhumi. Ukraine has managed to dispel all doubts that it might be biased toward one side or the other. So we welcome all of its efforts. On our part, we are prepared to grant Abkhazia the broadest possible autonomy within a single state. This is a very complicated process, and, but for the events of 1992- 1993, it would be far easier to resolve this conflict.”

“Are you considering an alternative to the Russian peacekeeping contingent in Abkhazia?”

“The council of CIS heads of states has recently renewed the mandate of the Russian peacekeeping forces until January 1, 2002. The Russian peacekeepers have another chance to show in deed that their presence in Abkhazia is effective, for today there are a lot of points to clear up. You will agree that the presence in a conflict area of only one country’s contingent will always raise certain doubts whether it is unbiased... I think the next meeting of the CIS heads of state council will consider this.”

“Would it be worth forming a GUUAM peacekeeping force?”

“This question was not discussed at the Yalta summit. It is very difficult to speak about any possibilities. Of course, Ukraine has rich experience in peacekeeping operations and could help many countries to defuse conflict situations. Simultaneously, if we increase our economic cooperation and create favorable conditions for economic development, this will be a factor contributing to conflict settlement.”

“Can we say Georgian society has now been united after the civil war?”

“I would love to answer your question in the affirmative, both as an ambassador and as a citizen of Georgia. Many differences have not yet been finally reconciled. But, as far as some fundamental future issues are concerned, such as our independence and European option, there is a consensus in our society. You will not find even one politician who would say we are not a European country and do not want to integrate with European structures.”

“Do the Georgian Communists also think so?”

“The Georgian Communists are not a very large force, they really cannot wield political influence. But even many of them support Georgia’s European choice.”

“Is there any debate in Georgia about joining some alliances and signing military and political agreements with Russia?”

“I remember no debates on joining any military and political blocs, especially after we quit the CIS collective security treaty in 1999.”

“How would you assess the prospects of such a delicate thing as military and technical cooperation?”

“Ukraine became the first state with which we signed a treaty on military-technical cooperation in 1996. A year later the Armed Forces Academy of Ukraine admitted the first Georgian servicemen. Now, too, your country is training many career officers for our army. We highly value your experience in building your army and forming the officer corps.

“In 1996 Ukraine gave Georgia its first patrol boat. Your example was followed by Greece, Turkey, and the US, which handed over warships of various classes to the Georgian Navy. In 1999 Ukraine supplied Georgia with a guided- missile ship, thus bringing about a qualitative change in the Georgian Navy. Some of our ships were repaired at Ukrainian shipyards. In late 1999 our helicopters, made unserviceable during the 1992- 1993 events, were delivered to Ukraine for repairs, and seven of these machines have now been completely restored.”

“Can the Georgian Orthodox Church bring to the streets of Tbilisi several thousand protesters against the Pope’s visit, as was the case in Greece and is now in Ukraine?”

“This is a very delicate matter. Pope John Paul II’s state visit to Georgia a year ago was a complete success. Various opinions were expressed before the visit, but there were no major confrontations.”