Janusz ONYSZKIEWICZ: “NATO membership will secure for Ukraine partnership relations with Russia”
Janusz Onyszkiewicz, the vice-president of the European Parliament, knows the ins and outs of the EU’s legislative body. He often visits Ukraine and has a clear understanding of Ukraine’s problems in joining NATO.
Why did Poland exercise its right of veto on the EU-Russia talks? In what way is Poland going to improve its image in the EU? How does Warsaw view Ukraine’s prospects for joining the EU, and how can it facilitate this process in practice? Does Ukraine have support in the European Parliament?
Onyszkiewicz, who represents Poland in the European Parliament and who was at one time Poland’s defense minister and a founder of the Solidarity movement, answers these questions in an interview he gave to The Day:
Many people in Europe and Russia accuse Poland of pursuing egocentric interests and attempting to exhort Russia to cancel the meat products import ban when it used its veto and prevented the European Commission from holding negotiations with Russia on the future treaty between Brussels and Russia. How do you, as a member of the European Parliament, assess Poland’s positions in this case?
“Polish claims are well grounded. Trade between Poland and Russia is a problem for Brussels, not Warsaw. Brussels should have joined this discussion. We notified the EU leadership that this is an important problem for us and that we would insist on having it resolved. But Brussels heard Warsaw too late, when there was no time left for its resolution and that is why it all ended with the Polish veto. This does not mean that Poland is a Russophobic country. It is very important for us to have good relations with Russia. I am sure that Ukraine has the same opinion on this issue. Unfortunately, Russia’s policy, which we see and assess not only from Warsaw but also from Brussels, is to isolate Poland. This policy aims at creating an image of Poland as a very anti-Russian country and a problem that always gets in the way. Everything possible is being done to destroy the image of our country as a serious player and EU partner.”
Who in the EU acknowledged the seriousness of the Polish problem?
“We have support in the EU. Lithuania, France, and a number of other countries have given us their support. I hope that the EU will approach this problem seriously and that the talks between Poland and Russia and between Brussels and Russia will reach a mutually beneficial settlement for the parties involved. This is not Poland’s problem. Russia has already said that this embargo will affect Romania and Bulgaria, which will join the EU on Jan. 7, 2007.”
In what way is it going to be resolved?
“I hope that current monitoring of meat quality at meat processing factories in Poland will show that our procedures are very strict and conform to EU standards and that this will be acknowledged by Russia. Perhaps a decision will be made to prohibit importing on EU territory or to transit meat through an EU country to third-party countries. This can be resolved.”
What is Poland going to do to improve its image inside the EU, especially in its relations with Germany, now that the twin brothers have come to power in your country?
“Poland’s image in Brussels is being influenced not only by Russia but also by the dynamics of the political process in Poland. This process affects Poland’s image and interests in the EU because some people consider Poland to be not only anti-Russian but also, in a way, anti-German. We have a paradoxical situation in Poland now. Before our accession to the EU most political elites were pro-European but citizens had their doubts. Now the opposite is true: 88 percent of the population support EU membership but the elites that came to power are Eurosceptics. This, naturally, tells on our relations with other countries. For example, if our deputy prime minister is the leader of a fanatically anti-European party, this is not going to boost our image in the West in any way.”
So how are you going to build your relations with the EU? Is the political elite going to change?
“I believe that the political elites that now wield power are changing because nobody can ignore the fact that nearly 90 percent of the Polish population support EU membership. This is causing the rhetoric to soften. The party I mentioned is already changing but too slowly, unfortunately. Nevertheless, it still influences the general approach to the EU of those political leaders who do not consider it a very important strategic project. They perceive it as a donor organization that is simply going to finance our development and formulate a principle of solidarity on which this union is based. And solidarity means that other countries have to help us, whereas we don’t have to do anything.”
What does Poland think about the EU’s possible future expansion? Is it going to help Ukraine draw closer and integrate into the EU?
“Despite all my criticism of the ruling coalition, Poland has two positives. First of all, the coalition is clearly signaling its support for good relations with the US. Another, and more important, positive factor is the support of democratic and pro-European tendencies in our neighbor countries-Belarus and Ukraine. Poland, no doubt, is going to facilitate these tendencies in Ukraine. The problem is whether Poland’s voice is going to have smaller or greater weight. It is regrettable that at present our voice carries less weight in the EU. Nevertheless, we are set on helping Ukraine to stay on its European course. But we keep telling our Ukrainian friends that they need to remember that this is going to be a long process. To remind you, Poland signed the association agreement with the EU in 1990 and joined the EU 14 years later. I believe that our starting point in this process was closer to the EU than Ukraine’s. Of course, it all happens much faster now but it won’t happen in a year or two. It cannot. Because if the situation miraculously changed so that Ukraine was invited to join the EU tomorrow, it would be a catastrophe for the Ukrainian economy. It simply wouldn’t survive the competition. The economy needs to be ready. That’s why it is not true that the EU’s request to wait some more time suits only its interests - it also meets Ukraine’s interests.”
Many experts say that neighborly relations that the EU is offering Ukraine are insufficient. Why is the EU reluctant to say that yes, in the future, maybe in the distant future, you will be an EU member if you meet such and such criteria?
“This kind of proposal exists. I remember a hearing in the European parliament about nominees for commissioners. I asked them, “What about Ukraine?” They said that Ukraine’s membership is not on the agenda now, period. The current situation is somewhat different. At first they say the same thing: Ukraine’s membership in the EU is not on the agenda, but instead of a period this is followed by a comma. They note that, according to the Treaty of Rome and other treaties, any European country has the right to join the EU. And this is already something new. In my opinion, somewhere in Western Europe, say, in Germany, France, or Great Britain, a politician who considers himself promising and serious would have to have the courage to speak frankly about this because the population of these countries experiences great inconveniences as a result of the EU expansion. One needs to let all people have some rest.”
What is the role of the European Parliament in the expansion process, especially in the light of the forthcoming December report of the European Commission on the EU’s ability to expand?
“The role of the European Parliament is very significant because it was the Parliament that first provided political support for the Orange Revolution here in Ukraine. This support began with the Polish group and spread to the whole parliament. In further resolutions on Ukraine the European Parliament hinted at the need to offer Ukraine prospects for joining the EU. This is attributed to the fact that the European Parliament is bolder and more forward-looking. Soon we will face the problem of the EU’s talks with Ukraine and Russia about new agreements on cooperation. Naturally, we will be watching this and trying to influence the EU and the European Commission in some way to offer Ukraine a wider range of prospects or perhaps greater prospects, or various forms of cooperation that will provide for Ukraine’s involvement in the process of making decisions in the sphere of our general European foreign policy, or even security policy. There may be other projects as well. I hope that that is how it will be because it is very important. Ukraine is considered not simply as one of the EU’s neighbors. Even the European Commission has a feeling that Ukraine will play a special role that will be distinct from Russia’s. And this is not just because Russia is a country rich in natural gas and oil whereas Ukraine lacks these resources. Nobody in the EU would speak now about considering Russia a potential EU member. But with Ukraine it is a different matter.”
In what way is support for Ukraine manifested in the European Parliament?
“When the Orange Revolution took place, nearly 100 percent of the Euro MPs, with the exception of radical leftists, voiced their support for Ukraine. Now, interest in Ukraine has somewhat abated. Right now there is no event that would attract everyone’s attention. But support for and increased interest in Ukraine remain, and not just among Poles, Lithuanians, and old EU members. For example, the deputy head of the bilateral group of the European Parliament and Ukraine is an Englishman. There is a very strong pro-Ukrainian lobby in the Parliament. And this is very important.”
In your opinion, when can we expect to see the question about Ukraine’s associate membership in the EU, etc., on the European agenda?
“I am sure that Poland’s EU presidency in 2011 will be a very important moment. Then we will be able not only to put Ukraine’s membership on the agenda, but also to work out the financial prospects for the next seven years. And our goal will be, in this light, to have more financing directed toward preparing Ukraine and perhaps some other countries, for example Macedonia, for EU membership.”
Two years after the Orange Revolution, what lessons are there to be learned by Ukraine and the EU?
“Naturally, we were hopeful that the winners of the Orange Revolution would also shape the Ukrainian government and political orientation. But this didn’t happen. That’s democracy. But this does not mean that for Ukraine everything is at low ebb. I believe in the possibility of Ukraine’s foreign policy being shaped by national rather than party interests, because this is how it used to be in Poland.”
You must have noticed that in Ukraine there is an ongoing struggle between the president and the prime minister for control and implementation of foreign policy. What is your assessment of this struggle?
“Of course, there is a struggle. But I hope that Tarasiuk will keep his ministerial office, even though he is under much pressure. I think that for the European Union and the US he is the guarantor of Ukraine’s unchanging foreign policy, which will maintain good and friendly relations with Russia but will be primarily oriented toward the West and the EU. I am sure that the future of Ukraine and its development can be secured in greater measure by its EU membership.”
What about NATO membership?
“It would seem that NATO membership can be obtained a lot easier. That was Poland’s experience. But Ukraine cannot join NATO if it runs counter to popular opinion in the country. I believe that NATO membership would be a very strong signal for Ukraine to build its relations with Russia at the partnership level and not otherwise. For Poland it was very easy. I remember a meeting with Russian MPs who came before we were invited to join NATO. They said, “You won’t join NATO. This is absolutely impossible. NATO will listen to our opinion. That’s why we need to sit down and honestly discuss our relations.” They simply wanted to use Poland as its sphere of influence. But it didn’t work. That is why NATO membership was exceedingly important for us.”
