Krzysztof Kucharski: No One Says Poland Erred in Choosing NATO
Ukrainian-Polish cooperation has a long and “multi-format” history. Polish support during the presidential elections was additional proof of its interest in furthering bilateral relations. Poland is a member of the European Union and NATO, while Ukraine is trying to get there. However, whereas the European project is supported by broad public circles in Ukraine, the Euro-Atlantic “corridor” is less popular. For the most part, this negative attitude is explained by a lack of information about NATO and what its countries have achieved as a result of their membership. These aspects and Ukraine’s Euro-Atlantic prospects are discussed in the following interview with Colonel Krzysztof KUCHARSKI, the newly appointed army, air force, and naval attachО with the Polish embassy in Ukraine.
Poland has been a member of NATO for more than 5 years. What recipes for effective reforms could Ukraine borrow to effectively travel the road to membership?
K.K.: The current situation in Ukraine is totally different from Poland’s 15 years ago. The Ukrainian economy is at a higher level than Poland was back then. That’s a positive factor for your country. I think that obtaining NATO membership is easier than staying there. When we embarked on the project, the Polish army had over 500,000 officers and men, now it’s 180,000. You’re going through the same manpower reduction process. What should servicemen do after being discharged like that? This problem is extremely important for them, because these are mostly young people. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry must find the money for what we know as reconversion, so these people can be taught new professions and have a chance in life outside the army. I’ve familiarized myself with the development strategy of the Armed Forces of Ukraine until 2015, in keeping with NATO requirements. This year you’ll have to cut your manpower by 40,000, meaning that these people must be provided with adequate funds in the current year. This is a great burden on the budget. To carry out these tasks, Ukrainian society must be convinced that it’s necessary. The army is financed by the budget, but not everything depends on money. I know, and I’m sure of this, that the public’s attitude must be changed toward what is referred to as the NATO project in Ukraine. In fact, a very good document has been worked out; it was warmly received and it provides for an opportunity to join NATO. It’s hardly possible to convey the whole Polish membership experience to Ukraine, because among other reasons you have a different legal system and it must be modified proceeding from your local conditions.
How does the Polish public feel about NATO membership after all these years? Some say that the attitude 5 years ago was more positive.
K.K.: Even now more people are for than against it. The public’s attitude to NATO was better in Poland than in Ukraine from the outset. Actually, this is the main distinction. We lived in a political system similar to yours, still our realities were different. Yes, there were people opposed to NATO membership, but no one says now that we’ve made a mistake. Political forces in the previous and current parliament aren’t against NATO. The alliance guarantees our society a degree of security that in turn provides for progress in the economy, public, even private life. This is the profound conviction of our society — and Ukrainian society must likewise become convinced.
As for the European Union, membership in this body has different aspects. Most people in Ukraine support the idea. In Poland, it’s slightly more than half the population. The referendum showed only 52%, but our law reads that 50% of citizens with the right to vote, rather than all respondents, is the final say. Surmounting that barrier was very difficult.
Even now some MPs believe that Poland should withdraw from the EU. They’re the minority, but the majority is sure that Poland made the right choice last year.
Some Ukrainian politicians, particularly ex-Premier Viktor Yanukovych, say that Ukraine’s membership in NATO will incur losses for the national defense industry. Poland also has a powerful defense industry. How did your membership affect it? Has it suffered losses?
K.K.: There are fewer losses. Market conditions, rules of the free market game are totally different from the ones we were used to. Before, the government decided how many tanks, aircraft, and so on, had to be manufactured. We can still make them, we have the potential. But to whom do we sell them? There’s enough matОriel for the Polish Armed Forces, we’ve got everything we need. Yet our country doesn’t have enough money to buy new weapons systems. There’s just enough to modernize what we already have. The Ukrainian state will also face the problem of surplus matОriel and where to find the money for modernization. In addition, preparedness must be maintained. That’s another question to be answered. Poland keeps answering it and our experience will be interesting for Ukraine.
All NATO countries are constantly reducing their army manpower. The current strategic parameters read that there’s no threat of war in Europe. That’s a very positive aspect, but it mustn’t lull anyone’s vigilance. We share peacekeeping missions with Ukraine and this is one opportunity to enhance our preparedness. Our servicemen returning from peacekeeping missions in Iraq can operate in real combat conditions. This is something no training can achieve, not even at the highest level, in Poland, Ukraine, or the United States. Soldiers with real combat experience are valuable to any army. Our Iraq veterans are the bulk of NATO commando and quick deployment units. These men are really prepared to be instantly used on special missions.
To what mission in Ukraine did the Polish Defense Ministry assign you?
K.K.: Our defense department gave me only one mission. I’m supposed to listen carefully to the proposals of the Ukrainian side and convey them to Warsaw as quickly as possible. For example, I already know that there’s a need to work out not only one-year, but also long-term cooperation plans. I think it’s a very good idea and it will be made known to our defense minister. It won’t be shelved; it will be constantly and purposefully processed.
I’d say that the icebreaker called Poland has broken the ice for Ukraine to set course toward NATO. You’re in clear waters, so now you must sail on your own. It’s very important that the example of our mutual relations be followed by other countries; I mean Ukraine’s possibilities and willingness to integrate, so NATO can appreciate you as much as Poland does. That’s a very important task that a military attachО can also help carry out. I assure you that I will make every effort to this end. We’re Slavs, we understand each other better, and it’s easier for us Poles to explain to NATO partners the prospects and potential of Ukraine and its army. There are true partner relations between Poland and Ukraine, there are no stronger or weaker sides. We are starting from an identical position in our progress toward NATO; we value your potential and regard Ukraine as an equal partner. Having allies among Western countries, Ukraine should probably borrow their experience so as not to repeat mistakes and not incur unnecessary expenses. You don’t knock on an open door.
