Michael BORG-HANSEN: Your society needs help in order to change

Starting in January, Denmark will take over the EU presidency for the next six months. What is this country’s attitude towards the EU-Ukraine summit that took place last Monday in Kyiv? When will Copenhagen be ready to sign the Association Agreement, the text of which was finally agreed upon? Michael Borg-Hansen, the Da-nish Ambassador to Ukraine, shared about this in his special interview to The Day.

“We now have an agreed text which was not the case before the summit. Since it is now agreed, you can say it is a result, it is a definite result. But what I just gave, it is not my opinion, I will not characterize this result. But it is clear there is no initialing, no signing. And when will this happen? It is not quite clear. Initialing is a technical question, it is making sure the text is right in all the languages an so on, it will take a few months. Signing is already something more. When you have a signed text, it will only be legally binding when it is ratified by the European Parliament and by 27 parliaments in member states. In order for this to happen, that is when the big breakthrough happens. I think, a lot of EU countries, mine included, and we just had a meeting in the Foreign Policy Committee when this came up. We are going to watch what goes on in Ukraine.”

When may your country be ready to sign this Association Agreement? Under what conditions might this happen?

“I already said that is not a technical, but a political question. And it will be signed, I believe, not by individual member states governments. But the Association Agreement as such has to be ratified by all countries. And there are members of parliaments, of most parliaments, I think, who will want to look very closely at what is happening in Ukraine. Because the situation now... It is extremely different from when this negotiation started. In those days Ukraine was considered to be the model country in the Eastern Partnership consisting of the neighbors of the EU to the East. I am not sure this is the case anymore.”

Is it because of the Tymoshenko case?

“The Tymoshenko case is not so much the case about Ms. Tymoshenko, it is a symptom of the way that the judiciary is placed in your society, which is essentially the same as many decades ago. And I talked to Ukrainian politicians and representatives of public prosecutor’s office, and they would agree with this. There needs to be a reform, so it becomes clear that the system in your country operates as in any other European country. Ms. Tymoshenko has become a symbol. But it is not so much her, it is the way she is treated.”

You might have spoken to many Ukrainians, and they might have told you that they are not satisfied with the judiciary system in Uk-raine because of corruption and other things. In which way would it be better to influence Ukraine: when it gets the Association Agreement, or when it would be in grey zone without any perspectives?

“I think the grey zone is not very potential for the development of a European integration policy. It is very natural of me to say that the development of your country, economic development of your country, for the introduction of more competition, of more attractive conditions not just for our companies, but for Ukrainian companies. You need to have Europeanization. It is not enough to be geographically in Europe. There is also such a thing as the organization of society. You are building a state, you have a nation, you also need a society that functions in a modern way. Judiciary is one aspect, but an important one. When our enterprises come here, wanting to invest or even just sell things, what kind of legal protection do they have?”

So, foreign enterprises have a lot of problems here?

“There are more and more problems, I am afraid, and I am not the only one to say so. I hear this not just from the EU countries, but many of my colleagues can report big problems, which is very unfortunate.”

And I could not skip to mention the death of Vaclav Havel who was called a Great European...

“Yes, and for a good reason. I would have wished for Ukraine to have had such a person in the 1990s. This is what made a big difference in Central Europe – to have a role model such as him and Leh Valensa. You gained independence in Ukraine, but you never had a revolution. The mentality of people changed in countries like Czech Republic or Poland enormously, with consequences for entire society.”

But Ukraine had a different situation. Even Vaclav Havel mentioned about Russian society which fights the most stringent form of post-communism, which is a combination of stereotypes and new mafia business, and this diagnosis can also be applied to Ukraine. Do you think that the Western countries, and the EU in particular, should consider this and help Ukraine survive or cure from this illness?

“I think you are absolutely right. The Soviet legacy is very heavy here, you have a terrible history, which is felt so much today.

“Do you know, how much mo-ney we have spent on aid with exactly this purpose over the last many years? Aid to Ukrainian institutions, Ukrainian society, non-governmental organizations to help change the Ukrainian system. We as the EU and as member states do not have a bad conscience. The problem is the system here had difficulties in absorbing and actually using this money. You can ask the EU Ambassador Teixeira, and he will tell you, how much money is at risk for Ukraine, because the programs we have proposed for the benefit of your country, for the benefit of your citizens, is being rejected.”

Have you heard the reasoning of Ukrainian officials on why they do not use this money?

“There are different reasons for this, and I will not go into that. But I assure you, what you say is true, this society needs assistance in order to change, but ultimately at the end of The Day, responsibility lies with you.”

By the way, your country will have the presidency for the next half a year. You know that one of Poland’s priorities is to put Ukraine closer to the EU. And what are the Danish priorities concerning Ukraine?

“We are not in the same way the neighboring countries with a long long history of very close relations with you. But we share the same ambitions as Poland does. In our case, we have long experience with the EU presidencies. We know exactly what to do, and it means that we are not putting our national interests on the top. As a presidency, you act on behalf of everybody in the whole Union. Plus, the fact that we have a new treaty in Europe that transfers most of the responsibilities, especially in the third countries like Ukraine, to the European institutions. So I am not going to feel a big increase in my burden here. Actually, one thing I will do is I will coordinate consular assistance to our fans when we have Euro-2012 – that will keep me busy. But otherwise, we will have lots of tasks in Brussels. But here I am not getting any extra staff.”

What was the most important event that happened in Europe and Ukraine this year?

“Well, we heard the speech of the President Yanukovych the other day to me and my colleagues, and he mentioned Fukushima, which is certainly an important one. We are among those who have contributed to doing something about Chornobyl. I think it is actually a very important factor for

European security that we make Chornobyl safe. Of course, there are some very obvious things like the Arab Spring and so on, I do not even need to mention that. But Chornobyl is not just a worry for Ukrainians, it is actually a worry for many, because the place is still not safe, even after 20 years. So, I would like to take up this one as an important thing, because now the new sarcophagus is going to be in place thanks to all of the efforts, I think that is an important fact, and a good story, by the way.”

What do you remember the most from The Day’s publications, what materials, authors, or projects of The Day during this year?

“Mr. Firtash had an interview with you, I paid attention to that. I look mostly at headlines, and then sometimes I go into an article, and I think you issue a very good pro-duct. But rarely I do have the occasion to go into depth with articles.”

Do you read them in English or Russian?

“When I really have lots of time, I read it in Russian, but the English version is fine, although it is a bit later, of course. You should keep it, because it is a really good advertisement for your paper.”

Where are you going to celebrate Western Christmas, the New Year, and Ukrainian Christmas?

“For Ukrainian Christmas I will be in Ukraine, but for our own I will be in Denmark. Last year we had wonderful snow, this year is going to be different, it is like here very much. But I am looking forward to some rest. We had a busy year. We had a visit of our Crown Prince here in the middle of the year, which was a very good occasion, a successful visit. And I hope to be able to convince my authorities to further official exchanges with Ukraine. Because we consider ourselves to be in good and friendly relations with your country, and we would like to see it prosper and develop in a way that we can feel that you are making progress in the dimension which your president still seems to think is the main one for your country, and we applaud that.”

Can you give a toast or some New Year greetings to our readers?

“Well, it has to be about football, because it is such an important event for you. I wish you will be able to display your country in the best possible way. Of course, it is also a bit risky, because a lot of people abroad who do not know about Ukraine, will have the first chance to really see it, and I know this from my own experience, when you are subject to scrutiny, sometimes things go wrong, and I hope things will go well. Off course, I hope for our national team to succeed, but the competition is very tough. We meet Germany, Netherlands, you know, all these teams are actually very difficult to see. And it is going to be interesting to have the games in Lviv and Kharkiv. There is going to be a lot of work for the Embassy with the fans who are going to lose their passports, and money, and they will drink too much horilka, and there will be some problems. But in the main, I think it is going to be a very good event.”