Polish Ambassador to Ukraine Marek Ziolkowski is convinced

This year, Ukraine and Poland, arguably the only two countries in the region that have positioned themselves as strategic partners since day one, faced perhaps the most difficult challenge in their relationship, that is, the sixtieth anniversary of the Volyn tragedy. The Day has made its contribution to the discussion that unfolded on both sides of the border and, obviously, influenced its outcome to some extent. Currently, Ukraine and Poland are jointly braving another challenge, the peacekeeping mission in Iraq.

According to Ambassador Ziolkowski, the Poles believe that Ukraine’s accession to the Single Economic will not contradict its movement toward the EU. They think, however, that we would do best to confine our efforts to a single direction. In this case the European choice would be most effective, which has been confirmed in practice.

“Owing to your editors, we have jointly commemorated the Volyn tragedy. You cannot dissociate yourself from your history. You cannot build bridges between peoples and societies without shouldering the responsibility for our common history.

“The resolution signed by our presidents on January 13 is evidence that it in fact takes a lot of respect and courage to commemorate this anniversary. And we convinced Ukrainian politicians and reached an agreement. To me it is extremely important that the Ukrainian mass media undertook the mission of conveying information, opinions, along with very complex reflections of Polish and Ukrainian politicians on this event and responsibility, both political and moral.

“I recall that The Day carried scores of interviews and articles on this issue.

“We are grateful to the Ukrainian mass media, and to The Day in particular, which published countless interviews and articles on the Volyn tragedy. I offer my thanks to the editor-in-chief of your newspaper and Mr. Makhun, who led the campaign. We understood that owing to the public interest and the trust that President Kwasniewski has in Ukrainian politicians, we would be able to discuss these issues and reach a joint decision. At a time when the interests of the whole nation were concerned, we wouldn’t have achieved anything without the support of the mass media.

“We were surprised not so much at the fact that such a discussion was possible at all as at the scale of this discussion. As far as I remember, since last November-January Ukrainian regional and central media outlets aired a dozens of films and programs and carried hundreds of features each month.”

“Thus, can we say we have passed a difficult stage in our history and moved on to a new one which we perhaps do not even fully understand?”

“I must say that this page in our history has never been decisive in our contemporary bilateral relationship. The first thing we did twelve years ago was open the Ukrainian-Polish border to absolutely free and unrestrained contacts among people. This helped increase the level of the Ukrainians’ trust in Poland. And we are very glad to have created a normal image of Ukraine in Poland, not the one of a former closed Soviet republic, but that of a country undergoing transformations.

“We have achieved an unprecedented level of political contacts between our presidents, governments, and parliaments. We have also achieved a very intensive level of economic contacts, and this is quite an interesting phenomenon. They have become so intensive that we can consider economic relations a social phenomenon. First, our trade turnover is now $1.7 billion, and, second, it involves many small and medium businesses. In numbers, there are ten thousand Ukrainian and Polish businesses that are signing contracts and working together. If you count the people involved, this figure might exceed 100,000 persons doing legal business, shuttle traders excluded. We no doubt agree that there are objective reasons for this, such as different prices and different levels of economic development. Nothing remains to be done in this case but to wish Ukraine a fast pace of reforms and economic development.”

“When you mentioned Ukraine’s normal image in Poland, I remembered a survey conducted late last year in Poland that suggested that of all nations the Poles like Americans the best, while Ukrainians numbered fourth from the bottom of the popularity list.”

“In statistics as in sports, someone always tops the list. But this does not mean that the others are any worse. Unfortunately, the burden of stereotypes perpetuated in the past two, three, or perhaps five centuries can be felt all the time, and this burden is very heavy. However, Ukrainians’ popularity is higher with each passing year.”

“Returning to economic cooperation, in my view, there are two pronounced trends. First, elementary sales operations are gradually becoming a thing of the past. Second, Polish products, having lost the Ukrainian foodstuffs market, are beginning to lose other markets, in particular, that of construction materials. Is this the case?”

“You could get such an impression, but I don’t know whether it is supported by statistics. Our statistics for the past three years are very positive, with commodity turnover growing by 20 to 25% a year. Moreover, Polish exports to Ukraine continue to increase. Last year’s exports were $1 billion. It’s hard to tell what exactly we are exporting, since there are between twenty and twenty-five items on our export list. Our exports to Ukraine are very balanced. As for Ukrainian exports to Poland, raw materials and minerals account for its lion’s share (nearly 40%). Meanwhile, not a single item of Polish export exceeds 10% in the general structure of exports.

“We are very glad to see Polish capital invested in Ukraine’s economy. Thus far, Polish investment in Ukraine stands at $100 million. Without doubt, this is very little. It is noteworthy, however, that ten to thirteen years ago Poland started its economic transformations almost from scratch, and it was only two or three years ago that we achieved a level enabling Polish companies to invest money abroad. On the whole, there is not much Polish capital invested abroad, roughly $700 million. It is noteworthy that Ukraine ranks second after Germany in the list of recipients of Polish investment and account for a 15-16% share of all investments. This is a very high index. I mean only direct investment.

“Ukraine receives Polish investment despite the difficult investment climate and the fact that Ukraine attracts less foreign capital compared to other countries.”

“How will the Poles react when Ukrainians start investing in the Polish economy?”

“This will depend on free market rules and on the willingness of Ukrainian investors, as well as on the investment projects in Poland. The first attempt has been made, with the Industrial Union of the Donbas expressing its willingness to enter its bid in a tender to buy a stake in a company in Czюestochowa. Ukrainian investors did not show such serious intentions before.

“There is much talk of the Odesa-Brody pipeline project, about the possibility of building its 100-kilometer stretch to Polish territory. We hope that this project will be implemented jointly by Ukrainian and Polish companies. Getting bank loans for this project is quite another matter.”

“I sometimes get the impression that Poland started to show a more active involvement in the Odesa-Brody-Gdansk project after it was backed by the European Commission.”

“I wouldn’t say that this happened after that, although this was a powerful stimulus. The US has expressed support as well. Undoubtedly, the European Commission supported this project, attached strategic importance to it, and will help implement it. Specific terms have been set forth, and presently we see a more or less clear picture. We know where Ukraine will buy oil and who will be on the receiving end. Two Polish companies have already signed protocols of intent to buy Caspian oil. Czech and Slovak companies have also announced such intentions. We are conducting market research to find out whether there will be constant demand for Caspian oil on the German market. This is the most important factor.

“We seriously intend to inaugurate the first shipment of oil via this pipeline to Poland at the October 21 trilateral meeting of Vice Premiers Haiduk of Ukraine and Pol of Poland, and EC Vice President Loyola de Palacio.”

“In your view, what challenges will our countries face in the near future, considering the future new format of our relationship?”

“That Poland will join the EU is a major challenge, and this should be treated very seriously.

“On the one hand, our economy ministers have agreed to organize expert discussions to analyze how our bilateral relationship will be affected by the EU enlargement.

“We must study how Poland will be able to perform its desired role of Ukraine’s promoter in the EU. It is in our national interest to show that Ukraine is a factor of stability and a European country with a great economic potential, and that it offers many opportunities for transit through all the pipelines and highways that can be built on its territory.”

“Even despite the fact that Ukraine itself sometimes makes its neighbors doubt this?”

“I would say that while twelve years ago one could question Ukraine’s viability as an independent state, now this period is long gone. Now it is important that Ukraine achieve economic, political, and social development. This is very important to us as well.

“We are interested in a Ukraine that would, like Poland, dream about extending loans and not receiving them. Poland is already contemplating the role of a donor in Europe.

“Under the new circumstances we will also have to protect European solidarity with respect to Ukraine on all EU policies, that is, agrarian and defense policy, etc.

“Thus, the challenge is for Ukraine to organize its relationship with Europe not through Warsaw and Kyiv alone. Ukraine should count on such big countries as France, Spain, and Germany. Poland assumes the role of Ukraine’s promoter in the EU. However, there are voting rules and rules for making decisions. And if the EU approves a certain decision, Poland will be obliged to enforce it.”

“Why, in your view, is Poland Europe’s only promoter of Ukraine? Why haven’t such countries as Germany and France assumed this role?”

“This is a matter of common history and neighbor status. You cannot expect France or Spain to have an equally active relationship with Ukraine as they have with the Maghreb States. The intensity of our relationship rests on our mutual aspirations and the realization of such aspirations. Polish political scientists do not view Ukraine as a tool for achieving certain ends in the world or region. We believe that our relationship with Ukraine is a paradigm for emulation by other countries in the region. However, things are not ideal. We cannot achieve such a level of commodity turnover as we have with Germany, because the Ukrainian and Polish markets are not that big.”

“Would you comment on the Ukrainian-Polish cooperation in Iraq?”

“That we are conducting a joint peacekeeping mission is proof that the Polish and Ukrainian politicians and society understand the need to employ a new philosophy of military service. The military is no longer an instrument of warfare but an instrument of maintaining peace, which is an absolutely new approach both for the Ukrainian and Polish military. Now we are gaining experience in Iraq, as we did in Kosovo through the Ukrainian-Polish battalion. Threats to international security are evidence that the military is needed to maintain peace and not wage war. The understanding of the threats to security has also changed. The threat comes not from the most powerful states, but from the weakest, most unstable and isolated states such as North Korea, formerly Iraq, and Afghanistan to some extent. Our joint participation in the stabilization forces in Iraq is proof that our politicians have reassessed the functions of the military and their understanding of threats to safety. This is evidence that we can be active participants of transformations in the arena of international security.”

“Why do you read Den’/The Day?”

“Because it is a daily, and I like dailies. I find in The Day what I like to read in Poland, that is, critical analyses of decisions made by politicians, be it Polish, American, or Ukrainian politicians. It is essential not to criticize either the opposition or those in power, but to offer one’s own opinion. And I can find many such opinions in The Day. You cover not only Ukrainian politics, but the history and traditions of the regions as well. I value your book, Ukrayina Incognita, very highly. I value these articles, because they provide food for thought.”