Roman BEZSMERTNY: Ukrainians have no idea in what paradise they live

On February 15, six European countries — the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Aust­ria and Germany — made a public statement in which they condemned the Belarusian government’s treatment of the opposition. Ukraine was also offered to join in. However, as Prime Minister Mykola Azarov explained in Bratislava, our state didn’t have time to do it due to procedural issues: according to him, Kyiv received the text of the agreement only on Tuesday morning. “We cannot help being concerned with what happens in Belarus. Taking into account the assessments currently expressed by European countries, we have a possibility to inform the Belarusian government about this concern in other ways, which we do,” said the prime minister.

In Minsk it is not a professional diplomat but an experienced po­litician, Roman BEZSMERTNY, that has to realize this rather ambiguous position. Viktor Yushche­n­ko appointed him Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the Republic of Belarus a year ago. The Day met Bezsmertny in the Uk­rainian embassy in Minsk, where the ambassador was hospitably receiving a delegation from Kyiv. One should say that he looked quite comfortable in this role. But how does this person, who used to be at the center of Ukrainian politics feel, in this country? In an interview to The Day Bezsmertny speaks about what he has seen during his year in Belarus and how he perceives the situation in Kyiv.

Since 1990 you have constantly been in the epicenter of Ukrainian events. Don’t you feel alienated from domestic politics at present?

“In 2008, for the first time in my political career, I decided to leave politics as such. But then po­li­tics took interest in me. There were circumstances I couldn’t overcome and I had to return. At first to the Secretariat, then to the party, and then I started taking part in the elections. Because I was escaping politics, it would be wrong to say that working as ambassador in Belarus I feel that I have forsaken political life. I wanted this, I wanted to abandon politics. I felt that as a human I might pay too dearly for my further involvement. The decision — not my decision — to be ambassador in Belarus pleasantly impressed me after a year of my stay here. The experience I got in this time is invaluable. I’ll put it this way: Ukrainians have no idea in what paradise they live.”

So how do you like working here after our paradise?

“I like it as any other job. I experienced even more difficult si­tuations. My work experience in the parliament and the Cabinet of Ministers allows me to solve issues more quickly. I am pleasantly impressed by the personnel of the embassy, people in Belarus, and the work available here. Contrary to expectations, there is no feeling of discomfort. I can’t say why Belarus. I didn’t choose and I didn’t make the decision.”

You came to Belarus in a rather interesting time. How do you evaluate the Belarusian electoral process of 2010? Why do you think the opposition still didn’t manage to achieve its goal?

“First, when a Ukrainian says ‘electoral process,’ he or she means something by this phrase. From the viewpoint of Ukrainians Belarusians didn’t have elections. I mean Ukrainian, Georgian, Czech, Polish, or British elections. But what I saw in Belarus left strange feelings. What are Belarusian elections? These are elections without outdoor advertisement, without any (big or small) gatherings of people; these are elections during which all channels show only one person. And then they revealed a secret to me: as it turns out, there have never been as open elections as those in 2010. I don’t judge anyone: Belarusians must live their lives, and Ukrainians — theirs. But I can say: I couldn’t live in such conditions. I would either do anything to overcome this situation or the state would overcome me. In Ukraine I did everything to prevent such elections.”

You still don’t exclude the possibility of such elections in Ukraine?

“Who knows. I reminisce: ‘Everyone builds one’s flourishing life as one can.’”

Who do you think is the strongest leader in the Belarusian opposition?

“I would single out a few fi­gu­res. I want to focus on them and say that they had chances for victory, both independently and as part of a political party. Certainly, there is Andrei Sannikov. Of course, there is Uladzimir Niaklajeu, and Aliaksandr Milinkevich. The Belarusian opposition, just like the Belarusian government, has leaders and chiefs. I can’t agree with those who say that the Belarusian people don’t have leaders. One just needs to analyze the situation more deeply. And not to be arrogant toward the Belarusian people.”

What is Ukraine’s position regarding the situation in Belarus? After the events on December 19 there was a statement by the Mi­nistry of Foreign Affairs, to the effect that economic relations with Belarusians were more important for us. It seems that Ukraine decided to exchange democratic principles for economic benefits. But then when visiting Poland, Viktor Yanukovych said that we hoped Alexandr Lukashenko would change for the better and that he went too far with the opposition.

“First. Ukraine’s position is absolutely clear. Ukraine cannot support and will never support the steps which were made regarding the Belarusian opposition and citizens of Ukraine on December 19, 2010. This goes beyond European, Christian and Ukrainian values. There are no interests — economic, financial, property or banking — that can be exchanged for human rights. They are priceless.

“Second. Ukrainians and Belarusians have thousands of kilometers of common border; by the way, it still awaits demarcation. This means that instability in Belarus is very dangerous for Ukraine. So we pay close attention to the events. We will cooperate in different ways with Belarus. This is a nation of nine million people. There is the five billion dollars of commodity turnover each year. There are jobs, income for Ukrainian and Belarusian families. In addition, there are common economic projects which involve not only Ukraine and Belarus, but also Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Scandinavian countries and countries of the Black Sea basin. Due to their multilateral character these projects cannot depend on the relations of two states. So there is economic cooperation.

“Third, the social sphere. Every day up to ten delegations from Ukraine performing concerts, screening movies etc., hold negotiations to come to Belarus. These are relations between people and one should value them.”

How is border demarcation, which you mentioned earlier, going?

“It got stuck at the level of ratification. As the heads of our states said, very little is left. We are looking for ways to do it. It is connected with the so-called debts of Ukraine. I will be happy if during my stay here the Ukrainian government and the foreign mi­nist­ry, headed by the president, will manage to solve this complex and protracted problem.”

You must follow events involving the Ukrainian community in Russia. What is the situation of Ukrainians in Belarus? There are no Ukrainian schools except for Sunday ones, no cultural centers, no library of Ukrainian lite­rature. Is anything done to solve these problems?

“At present work is concentrated in the Ukrainian embassy. Every week we hold meetings of Ukrainians with screenings of movies, discussions and talks. We have been constantly working on the issue of a school and library. The main problem is that Ukrainians in Belarus are concentrated in the southern regions of Brest and Gomel oblasts. There are few Ukrainians in Minsk. There are some locations with numerous Crimean Tatars — a big colony was brought here in the middle of the 16th century. Therefore we work in these two directions.

“We registered all Ukrainian public organizations in the embassy, keep in touch with them all the time; they constantly hold different activities. Currently we started repairing a building for a library and plan to finish it by the end of May. A cultural and information center which deals with holding different activities functions at the embassy.”

Cultural circles and internal activities are great. But we both know that in the modern world cultural expansion is done differently. The Goethe Institute, the British Council, and the Polish House function in Kyiv and Minsk. The consul of the Russian Fe­de­ration recently announced the opening of a Russian center in Kharkhiv. I am talking about cultural centers that conduct social policy outside their states on a different level.

“I absolutely agree with you. There are things for which one can upbraid the embassy, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ukrainian government and the Verkhovna Rada, none of whom allocates mo­ney for such things like publishing nationally-themed books. I will say even more: each year Poland takes up to fifty top Belarusian students to study in Poland. We had a si­mi­lar program — it was closed, though it still can be resumed. It is prestigious for a Belarusian to study in a Ukrainian university.”

Regarding international events, you saw what happened in Egypt. Does it remind you of the Maidan?

“Sure. The current millennium is a millennium of Maidans and big social changes. No wonder it started with social networks. This is closely connected. Globalization bred a new type of civic activity. There is no difference between the Maidan of Tunisia, Egypt, Ukrai­ne, Georgia, Serbia or the Czech Republic. Some happened before Kyiv, and others after Kyiv. But they are twins in terms of organization and methodology.

“It can be easily explained. Civic society is a lifestyle — for Kyivans, Ukrainians, Europeans, the world’s citizens. The paradox of this situation is that no go­vernment noticed it. People come to governmental offices and lose the sense of a civic society.”

Will Egyptians be eventually disappointed with the results of their revolution, too?

“Disappointment comes when one expects manna from heaven. When the Constitution was signed and peace seemingly came in relations between the parliament and president, it occurred to me that, in fact, ordeal starts because work starts. When they adopted the Constitution I told myself: they rejoice because they still don’t know what hell awaits them. When the leaders left the Maidan, together with Yurii Lutsenko and Taras Stetskiv we spent a long time cleaning up the mess. I thought: I have no idea what work awaits me in the future. As Leonid Kuchma was executing the program of the People’s Movement, which disappointed some, Viktor Yanukovych realizes the program of the Maidan, which disappoints others. This is not a diplomat but a historian talking.

“The Maidan was a prominent event that made the entire world see Ukraine and Ukrainians in a different light. This ‘difference’ started the next day after Viktor Yushchenko released the doves.”

The Day repeatedly stressed that the Maidan could have been avoided and would have been unnecessary if the 1999 elections produced a different result.

“When Yurii Lutsenko turned 40, I congratulated him and he told me: ‘Everyone must remember that until we continue meeting, it is impossible to avoid the Maidan.’

“1999 couldn’t end in a different way. We were doomed to that result. I am not going to undertake too much, but I will say: there are people, there are actions, and there is a result.”

By the way, regarding the people and the result, you mentioned three field commanders of the Maidan: Bezsmertny, Stetskiv and Lutsenko. The irony of fate is that the former two are now occupying governmental offices and the third one is in a somewhat different place.

“When Kolesnikov was arrested I didn’t understand — why? And I don’t understand why they arrested Lutsenko. If this is revenge, the people doing it are paving their road to hell. I talk to both Stetskiv and Filenko about this. If I was not in exile, perhaps I would do something.”

Are you in exile?

“I don’t feel this way. The only thing I can say: I will never act contrary to the positions of the ci­ti­zen Bezsmertny.”

And you have never acted contrary to your own positions?

“I have and I feel sorry for these cases. But it is in the past.”

Do you think you’re in Minsk for good?

“It doesn’t depend on me. I am a worker-slave.”