For Russia’s Sake

Not so long ago a number of well known Russians asked President Putin to “respect the choice made by the Ukrainian people, even if this choice does not conform to some personal preferences of the Kremlin, which are difficult to explain.” The Russians urged their president to “abolish censorship and official falsehoods flooding the television screens and pages of government-run periodicals... It is time to stop pinning labels and pouring oil on the fire of anti-Ukrainian hysteria. It must be remembered that a policy based on lies and falsifications eventually suffers a fiasco.” Interfax reports that the message to Vladimir Putin was signed, among others, by Boris Nemtsov, leader of the Union of Right Forces; Ludmila Alekseyeva, chairperson of the Helsinki Watch Committee in Moscow; Garri Kasparov, world chess champion, chairman of the 2008 Committee; Irina Khakamada, leader of the party “Our Choice”; Georgi Satarov, president of the Indem Foundation, journalist Viktor Shenderovich, and Yevgeny Kiselyov, editor-in-chief of the Moscow News known in Ukraine as the manager of the NTV television company in its old liberal days, and the host of the analytical program Itogi (Results). Mr. Kiselyov kindly agreed to an interview with The Day.

Kiselyov: I signed that letter because as a citizen of the Russian Federation and as an individual who has profound respect for Ukraine and its people, I believe that Russia must not meddle in its neighbors’ internal relations. I am convinced that attempts to revive the Russian empire under any new pretexts, as well as attempts to claim a special role in the so-called post-Soviet space, will bring nothing good for my nation, for the multinational Russian people. We must think not of reviving the empire but of how to make our people prosperous, peaceful, and happy, so that others can respect us, not because we are an empire armed with the latest missiles, trying to manipulate the political process in neighboring countries, former Soviet republics, but because Russia is a rich, peace-loving, and thriving polity.

I’m also convinced that playing on separatist moods is very dangerous. Russia tried this in Abkhazia, by resorting to extremist forces in the Caucasus, particularly in Chechnya. As a result, it acquired Shamil Basayev. Our neoimperialists made their first attempts to capitalize on separatism even before the Soviet Union’s collapse, when they sought to broaden these sentiments in certain parts of Estonia and the other Baltic republics, where Russian-speaking residents historically predominated. There are other examples, like Transdniestria. In a nutshell, such attempts have never yielded good results.

I believe that events in Ukraine are a vivid example of how people revolt, sooner or later, against official lies. I think that a million people gathered on Independence Square not because they are all for Yushchenko, but above all because they don’t want to live the old way, with lies and censorship. I wouldn’t want to see a civic confrontation in Russia. I know that our president is in a position to change the situation primarily through Russian television, by putting an end to that orgy of lies and propaganda in our media, and not only with regard to what’s happening in Ukraine.

How strong are stereotypes in the Russian perception of Ukrainian realities? The impression is that many Russians are still unable to understand why Ukraine needs its independence. The stories aired on Russian television are not the main reason, of course, but a consequence if you will.

Kiselyov: Stereotypes in the Russian perception of Ukrainian realities are very strong. Furthermore, for many politicians, public figures, and journalists these stereotypes are perhaps consciously accepted as a decisive factor of their stance. I sometimes hear from people who are supposed to be above such stereotypes, personal circumstances, or emotions, something along the lines of, “My wife is Ukrainian, so how can I tear myself in two between Russia and Ukraine?” The fact that your wife is Ukrainian or that you were born or lived in Ukraine, or are accustomed to spending your vacations on the Black Sea coast are not reason enough to deny the Ukrainian people the right to independence and self-determination. The more we deny them, the stronger certain frames of mind will become in Ukraine.

On the other hand, stereotypes are inevitable. If you will pardon my saying so, people over thirty were born and raised in the Soviet Union, brainwashed by Soviet propaganda, so it is natural that overcoming such prejudices will take a long time.

The theory that the “civic revolution” in Ukraine may serve as a catalyst for “civic evolution” in Russia has become quite popular. How much romanticism and realism do you think it contains?

It’s fifty-fifty, I think. I don’t mean to offend people who live in Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, and other Ukrainian cities, of course, after all, they went on the streets to hold protest rallies against the election fraud, but without Kyiv their efforts would have been vain. By the same token, consciously active people who determine the public mood in Russia place the living standard, well-being, private life, and personal interests far above public ones. There is no revolutionary situation, when people can no longer live in the old way. This is the big difference between our two countries. On the other hand, Russia is certainly pregnant with opposition because the absence of a real and influential opposition is an increasingly disturbing factor. I believe that the powers that be in Russia are perfectly aware that the victory of those who are championing the European developmental model in Ukraine will sooner or later change the political climate in Russia, if only because there will be an example of an alternative developmental model in close proximity. It is generally known that people in the highest echelons of power in Russia are deadly serious when they consider the Latin American model as one that best suits this country. Of course, they would like nothing better than to have such models adopted in neighboring countries. This is the main reason behind official Moscow’s vehement resistance to Yushchenko’s possible victory.