“Swedish model” and attitude to the past

Sweden has been consistently supporting Ukraine’s European and Euro-Atlantic aspirations. This Scandinavian country, initiated the Easter Partnership Program jointly with Poland. Our countries are connected by the events that took place 300 years ago.

How does Stockholm view Ukraine’s prospects to join the EU membership and sign the Association Agreement with Brussels? Can Sweden’s experience, which also faced the European choice nearly 20 years ago and now is running presidency in the European Union, be helpful for Ukraine? What role does history play in this country’s relations with its neighbors, and what is Swedish social model of today? These and other questions are raised in The Day’s interview with Swedish Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Ukraine Stefan GULLGREN.

“ANY COUNTRY WHICH WANTS TO COME CLOSER TO THE EU, WHICH AIMS FOR A MEMBERSHIP PERSPECTIVE, NEEDS TO ADAPT TO THE EU”

Mr. Ambassador, do you agree with some experts that say that Ukraine does not have any membership prospect for the next 20 years, because the EU is not capable of enlargement?

“Well, I haven’t seen these statements. But let me put it in the following way. What we have is a close relationship within the European Union. That has come closer during the past years. What we are doing right now is negotiating on an association agreement with a deep and comprehensive free trade area. That is an extremely important document because what it could mean is political association and economic integration.

“We would be able to move forward significantly. When it comes to the character of our relations, the most important element of this document is the free trade area, because not only will it facilitate trade, but since it also foresees approximation, i.e., adaptation of the European standards and norms by Ukraine, it will make Ukraine come closer to the internal market. And that will be of tremendous importance to facilitate trade and investment, because I think that when it’s in place, it will make Ukraine even more attractive as a country for investments from European countries, for production and export back to the European Union.

“As for the future, let me say that I don’t like this timetable saying that in 10 years, or 20 years something will happen. But changes happen on the ground where real changes take place. And any country which wants to come closer to the EU, which aims for a membership perspective, needs to adapt to the EU; that’s a fact of life. Maybe some people don’t think that’s fair, but the EU is where it is, it’s a market with 500 million people.

“When we applied for membership 18 years ago, we also had to adapt our legislation to the European Union’s legislation, because that was the requirement, and we thought that was worth the price to pay to become a member of this market. We don’t regret it. And I think that the choice which Ukraine has to make is whether Ukrainians are ready to take the commitment or not. If they are, we will of course welcome that, because we want Ukraine to be a stable, strong, and prosperous partner. But at this moment the most important thing is to focus on the process of negotiations on the association agreement and a deep trade area, because that is what will give concrete and substantial results.”

Do you consider it important for the EU to give a signal of the membership perspective to stimulate the reform process in Ukraine? Then it would be easier to expect Kyiv to implement necessary reforms.

“This is a question where there are different views. As the presidency of the European Union, we have to reflect the common view of the European Union. The European Union welcomes Ukraine’s European aspirations, which we have said many times. I think the common view is that the issue of membership is too early to discuss at this point of time, because we need to move forward more on the association and integration of Ukraine and the EU before we can discuss that particular issue. There are, of course, those who argue that according to the Treaty of the European Union any country can apply for membership provided that they meet the criteria. That is one point of view that some of EU countries, including my own country, share, that already there is a perspective, but others think that everything should be more qualified.

“But I think that what Ukraine should ask itself, like we asked ourselves, when we applied for membership, is why do we conduct these reforms? What is the purpose of these reforms? Originally, Sweden had a tendency to say that Brussels required us to do what we had to do. That created an impression among the Swedish population that we had to do something because someone else was telling us to do so.

“But the fact is that we needed to conduct these reforms in any case. We needed those reforms to become and stay a competitive economy and prosperous country. It was not because someone told us to do it, but because we needed to do it any way. Such a discussion would be helpful in Ukraine.

“My understanding of what I have seen in Ukraine is that the need for reforms is something linked to the European Union, but, most of all, Ukraine needs them for itself to become a more competitive and global economy. That’s why the reforms are necessary.”

What can the EU or Sweden do to help Ukraine make those reforms quicker?

“One way to support it is through the Eastern Partnership. And that is one of the purposes of the Partnership to provide better opportunities for reforms in the sectors mentioned there. And the Partnership provides for both the framework and some financing, although the funding foreseen in the Partnership is supposed to be only a part of the financing, because that is what European Union is prepared to provide. Then it will find itself the opportunities for financing from the international financial institutions and ultimately private investment, because if we manage to create a better environment for investments in general for the Eastern Partnership, the private investments will also flow.

“We have, of course, the bilateral support that the member states are providing, and Sweden is one of the most ambitious in this field. But, of course, to support we need something to be supported. This should be the reforms efforts and the reform process. And that is what only the Ukrainian government, parliament, and people can decide: the speed, the ambitions, and the scope for those reforms. We cannot decide this for Ukraine. We can support the process”

“ONE SHOULD HAVE AN OPEN EYE TOWARDS ONE’S OWN HISTORY”

How do you assess the resolution of the OSCE concerning Stalinism and Nazism?

“I think that any country—and my own country too—would do well to study its own past to try to understand why things happened. And when things happened that we today view as bad for the country, we should make sure that they don’t have it again. I think that one should have an open eye towards one’s own history.

“Again, I am speaking about my own experience in Sweden and our own history. Several times we had a tendency of trying to forget the black parts of our history, we note them as heroic as we would like them to be, but they are parts of our history and we need to be at peace with our own past to be able to move forward.

“We, for example, noticed a few years ago that there was among schoolchildren a week of knowledge about what happened during the Holocaust. And although we did not take part in the Second World War, we were, of course, part of Europe, then the government decided to introduce a campaign with massive information about the Holocaust in schools, and also how the Holocaust affected Sweden, because refugees came from other countries and Jews were fleeing to Sweden from other countries.

“And we also had in the 1930s groups of society who supported Nazi Germany. That was also included in this campaign. This existed, and one should know about it. I think that it’s important in general in societies when they have calm attitude to their past, because then you can move forward to the future much better prepared.”

Do Swedes know anything about the Holodomor?

“I think Swedes know too little about the Holodomor. We know too little about the history of Eastern Europe. That is something that we need to handle in a way. I think the best is full history education at schools. But history education is not something that should be decided by political leaders. Like any subject, it’s not something that you should change from one day to another. History in schools should be introduced for the young people to understand their past and the present. And I think that Holodomor is something that has happened in the past and that we are not aware of.”

THE SWEDISH CONSENSUS AND WAYS TO OVERCOME THE CRISIS

For many years the Swedish social model has been given as an example for us. Can you tell how the fact that conservators have come to power in Sweden influenced this model?

“First of all, I don’t really like this expression, ‘a Swedish model’. The problem that I see with that construction is that there is a certain model that you can apply in other countries. And I don’t think that’s true, because every country has its own traditions, on which society is based. It’s a slowly evolving process.

“It’s important not to look for models, but for experiences in other countries. If you have in your own country a certain issue, then it’s always useful to look at how other countries have handled the same situation. When you look for experiences, then you take what is good for your own country. That is why there is some negative in the Swedish social model. I don’t think that it is a model in a sense that it is something that had been planned or someone had an idea: well, this is what we’re going to do, we did it, and now here is the model.

“I think that there is more or lesser consensus in Sweden about the general system of governments that we have. We have a constitutional monarchy, where the king has representative functions, the government has executive power—and legislative power, of course.

“There is also a consensus that the largest part the social security should be financed through taxpayers’ money. It should be a general safety network. You don’t have to pay for health care, about a small fee, and education. I don’t think there a significant change has taken place during the present government on the general parameters of the society. And I don’t foresee any radical changes.”

How is Sweden tackling the economic crisis?

“That’s right—the Swedish economy has been affected by the crisis. Not least, because we are an export-oriented country. Half of our GDP are exports. And it’s clear when the demand in the export market goes down, it affects our companies. So the GDP this year will decline by approximately 5.4 percent; next year there will be a slow, small growth; then there will be a somewhat larger growth hopefully.

“But we went into this crisis with strong public finances, kind of surplus in the budget; now it is deficit, of course. We had a fairly low proportion of debt in relation to GDP, and we paid off in the last 10 years, every year. So there is room for measures to stimulate the economy. And these measures are being taken now by increasing of public expenditures to prevent mass unemployment, to invest in infrastructure, and to spend on unemployment programs.

“We will try to bring the unemployment, which will be almost 12 percent next year, up from 7-8 percent, under some kind of control. [We will] especially prevent people from being unemployed during a long period of time, so the measures you can provide are education [and] training of the unemployed people. So when the economy turns, they would be able to return to the job markets. And that’s costly. But we have a room in our public finances to spend on these measures.

“In connection with the fact that we are not part of the Eurozone, the Swedish krona has lost in value in relation to euro and dollar; that is bad for import, but it’s quite good for export. Hopefully, together with other measures this will make us better-positioned to use the opportunities once the economy turns.”

The Swedish presidency sees as a priority the state of ecology of the Baltic Sea. Will this have any impact on the Nord Stream project to build a pipeline in the Baltic Sea?

“Of course, ecology is an extremely important part of the Baltic Sea region’s development, because it is a vulnerable sea. It is a sea with only one way out like the Black Sea, and that creates ecological challenges that are much greater than in other lake or sea areas in the world.

“What we are doing in Sweden is to determine the environmental impact of the pipeline as it is planned to be built by the consortium. And since the plans are to build part of the pipeline in our economic zone, we have the right and an obligation to conduct such impact assessment of the environment. This procedure is underway. It’s not a political decision—it’s a legal decision. And we need to make sure that the environmental impact is not to be detrimental to the environment of the Baltic Sea.”

When will the assessment be finished?

“I cannot say, because that depends on the complexity of the project. These are usual procedures of the environmental impact, according to the Swedish Law. And we are not going to make any exceptions. Swedish Law is applied equally to everyone.”