Vadym RABYNOVYCH:I know where Horbulin puts his slippers 

V. R.: I asked my lawyer in Kyiv to apply for a court ruling suspending the SBU Collegium's decision. I am interested in the legal aspect and quite honestly, I cannot guess who knew or didn't.

The Day: You were among those who operated quite close to the President and you have on more than one occasion spoken in his favor. We have quoted you as saying in an interview with the Stolichnyie Novosti "nobody but Kuchma." How come he never interceded or otherwise acted in your support? Do you expect him to do so?

V. R.: The situation is even simpler. I have read a lot of allegations about me. For one thing, I have never been Mr. Kuchma's adviser. As for my being, in your own words, "quite close" to the President, I could name you a lot of other people just as close.

The Day: Getting back to Mr. Horbulin, do you think that he acted on his own or perhaps with the President's knowledge and consent?

V. R.: I read his statement to the effect that he could not have had any special relationships with a foreign citizen. Sorry, but untrue, and the same applies to everything else he said about me. There were "special relationships" as I often visited him at home; I can even say where he keeps his slippers in the corridor... Later, these relationships reached the point of absurdity; Volodymyr Horbulin, being President of the Basketball Association, did not attend the final game of the Ukrainian championship just because my team played. Your newspaper and others wrote that the conflict between me and Horbulin goes back several years, and he says that there have been no special relationships.

The Day: So what really happened to make such a close relationship so distant, resulting in such consequences?

V. R.: In fact, I have never been particularly close to Mr. Horbulin. I would describe our relationship like this: first, a unilateral desire to make friends, and then a unilateral desire to destroy. I am free from such excesses and I want neither to be friends with Mr. Horbulin nor to give vent to any hostile sentiments, simply because I deal in an altogether different field compared to him. Yet the man has an idee fixe as far as I am concerned. I don't understand what is going on.

The Day: From your earlier interview it follows that you learned about the SBU decision and left Ukraine that same day. Was this a coincidence or did you know in advance?

V. R.: Believe it or not, but I swear that I knew nothing; no one said a word. I got the bad news in Israel.

The Day: You were partners with Andriy Derkach, son of the SBU head. Couldn't he have passed on some information? Incidentally, you have spoken warmly of your business partners, so here is another question: How would you describe your relationships with Andriy Derkach?

V. R.: I am not Andriy Derkach's partner, in any line of business. This can be easily verified. Kyiv is a huge European city, yet it shows a provincial approach to business. It is generally assumed that if such-and-such does not attack such-and-such it means that the two are partners. Andriy Derkach is not my partner, we just know each other and maintain a civilized relationship.

The Day: What about the Era Television Company?

V. R.: I sold it advertising material through an advertising agency. I don't even know its location.

The Day: Talking about television companies, in that interview you mention Horbulin's desire to get the 1+1 channel under control, a channel close to you. What did they do to incur Mr. Horbulin's wrath? After all, he is a politician who represents the President's interests. Thus he can assess any given media from the standpoint of loyalty to the political leadership and the channel seems to have shown enough loyalty.

V. R.: Volodymyr Horbulin has always and exclusively represented his own interests, previously when working at the Communist Party Central Committee, and now. Perhaps he is a public servant. I am in no position to evaluate him in this capacity, for I have never worked officially. There are times, however, when ranking officials begin to identify themselves with the state. I am not saying that Rabynovych is a bad or good man, but will agree that a ranking official must not give vent to a paranoid desire to destroy someone for purely personal reasons.

I have repeated a thousand times and repeat again that I am in business doing real things. Let them enter my office and take pictures of what they find hanging on the wall. Commendations and letters of thanks. I did not write them myself, and this is a very small part of what I have, of the things I most treasure. I know I shouldn't say it, but I have spent a great deal of money on charity. Does this mean that I should have kept all my money away, hidden somewhere, or placed on a foreign numbered account? And that if I did I would be respected and loved by all? Well, I have seen hundreds of such characters. We are all used to distrusting anyone trying to make a noble gesture. We are all too suspicious. But suppose we try to be more trusting?

All you journalists specializing in politics and the economy know only too well who owns this or that factory, gas, oil, or other business; you know only too well that Rabynovych is nowhere to be found there. I make money using my head and Ukraine has only benefited from me, for I have been investing nine-tenths of what I made.

The Day: And what about your line of business? Personally, I have only seen your Prioritet Ad Agency. Television and newspaper investment calls for a lot of money, doesn't it?

V. R.: It is true that I have nothing to do with oil, gas or factories... I have earned a lot dealing with metals. We were the first to carry out tolling transactions when no one knew what tolling was all about. That was in 1992-93. Times were different, and we made a lot of money. We also dealt with coal, ore, and so on, very extensively. And we went into the insurance business. We are still there and we are showing remarkable progress. By the way, the Prioritet Advertising Agency is less profitable than many other of our projects. We also earned a lot supplying Israeli goods to Ukraine. There were 3-4 very successful transactions when we made certain projects and then sold them. For example, we organized the first pagers in Ukraine and sold the project to Israel.

The Day: Word has it that you will be pardoned and return to Ukraine.

V. R.: I don't want any backstage deals. I want this situation to reach its logical culmination. I have initiated legal action. If the court restores my rights I will come to Kyiv immediately. And I am prepared to answer any questions. If they open a criminal case I am prepared to face the law.