“Ukraine must be free of Russian domination”

Since early 2015, Senator John McCain has been the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Despite his busy schedule, filled with Senate sessions, the committee hearings, and travel missions, he found the time to answer the questions of The Day reporter – certainly, the interview required prior agreement.

It is noteworthy that the entrance to Russell Senate Office Building in Washington D.C., where the Senate committees and Senators’ offices are located, is open to anyone. Coming in requires no permits, in contrast to Verkhovna Rada committees. I simply arrived to the premises and only got my bag checked through a metal detector, I didn’t need to show my ID, neither was I questioned about where I was heading to and whom I was going to meet. Later I was told that this practice is a testimony to the openness of the people’s representatives, to whom any person visiting the capital might come without notice.

Senator McCain, you probably have seen the article “Is This the End of NATO?” which speaks about the lack of strategy on how the West and NATO could deal with the revanchist Russia. What is your opinion about it?’

“Obviously there is not strategy how to deal with Vladimir Putin who has ambition to restore Russian empire. And there is also degree of accepting his continued aggression which is reminiscent of the 1930s.”

Incidentally, it was yesterday [the interview was recorded on February 26] when Putin issued an Ultimatum to Ukraine demanding to stop fighting the Russian-backed separatists. It made me recall the statement of Toomas Hendrik Ilves, President of Estonia, about the choice of “either surrendering Ukraine or arming it.” In these circumstances, what is the first thing the US should do?

“This president has very different view of America’s role in the world than we have traditionally held. That is we believed America must lead in front. He believes that America leads from behind and we have seen the consequences of that all across Middle East now, with Chinese behavior in the Pacific.”

It is true, but according to Sun Tzu’s explanation on how to deal with the enemy, one should primarily aim to destroy their strategy, then their allies, and only then – their soldiers. Is that can be said about the new NATO strategy?

“I have great concern that once Putin takes Mariupol and establishes land bridge, he will continue to put intense pressure on Moldova and Baltic states – he already is doing it – if he had encroached on Baltic countries territory and we do not respond that would be the end of NATO.

“Our military leader in NATO has been warning about all these things. That is very good. Unfortunately President Obama refuses to recognize the reality of Russian ambitions, of Putin ambitions.”

What can be done to change Obama’s stance? It is said that the sanctions are called to change Putin’s plans.

“The Congress has been very active lately, we have passed resolutions. I am now looking for ways to force the transfer of weapons to Ukraine. American public opinion is calling for support of Ukrainian people and I believe that it’s possible that this president could change and begin providing defensive weapons to Ukraine. But as I said in ‘Face the Nation’ on Saturday, I am ashamed of my country, I am ashamed of my president, I am ashamed of myself because I have not done more.”

And what means are left for the Congress? Might a new law be adopted which will compel Obama to supply Ukraine with armaments for a sum of one billion dollars?

“Bipartisan pressure from even the senior democratic leadership and the Senate, I think, sooner or later can have some effect. Frankly, I thought long before now that the president will change, but he has not.”

Senator McCain, what do you think about the latest development after Debaltseve was seized by Russian-backed separatists? The West did not impose any new sanctions for breaching the second Minsk agreements. John Kerry told that if the infringement were to continue, further consequences would follow. And Cameron asserted that new sanctions would be called after a new Debaltseve. Why all those “ifs” instead of new sanctions?

“If it was not so tragic, it would be   entertaining. They keep saying ‘if,’ and continue ‘if,’ and continue ‘after Crimea,’ ‘after the shootdown,’ ‘after Donetsk,’ and they keep saying the same things. As I said, it’s the shame and reminiscent of the 1930s.”

We are constantly witnessing the EU tardiness and inadequacy in reacting to Russian aggression. In the past you already mentioned the violation of Minsk-2, stating that Merkel legitimized the annexation of Ukrainian territory. What do you think is the reason behind this?

“I think everybody has realized that Europeans are not going to do anything as long as they are depending on Russian energy. And there is no American leadership. I think we just have to accept that as reality. I was in Munich and Chancellor said something about the example of East Germany. It is nonsense. East Germany was during cold war.”

What would you recommend to Europe?

“That they just came quick and came early for Ukrainian people. By the way our military head of NATO (when asked about whether military aid might provoke Putin) basically said that Vladimir Putin has had his way. It was true, what more Vladimir Putin could have done?”

What, in your opinion, can stop Putin? Would further sanctions help?

“What will stop Putin is for him to pay a price that turns Russian people against him. That means ability of nations to defend themselves. And if the Ukrainians are willing to fight and die for Independence and freedom of their country, why would not United States of America give them the necessary means to achieve that goal? Throughout history, the United States has come to assistance of people who were struggling for freedom. And this president has grossly violated that tradition.”

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN GRATEFULLY RECEIVED TWO GIFTS FROM THE DAY, BOTH BELONGING TO DEN’S LIBRARY BOOK SERIES: UKRAINE INCOGNITA. TOP 25, REVEALING LITTLE-KNOWN PAGES FROM UKRAINIAN HISTORY IN ENGLISH, AND DAY AND ETERNITY OF JAMES MACE / Photo by the author

Apparently, Putin chose Ukraine as a foothold for his global adventure in challenging the world order. The world missed the outset of this undertaking. But how can yet it be prevented and what should the US do locally and globally in this regard?

“There are two points. One: for the first time in 70 years we are watching the endorsement by the Chancellor of Germany and President of France of the dismemberment of a European country. Second point is: that has encouraged others throughout the world, including China, including other countries in the Middle East, and it set a very dangerous precedent. Particularly, it may encourage Vladimir Putin to practice more adventurism.”

And yet after all this Putin’s recklessness, Merkel suggests Russia to be included into Euro-Atlantic economic community. Why such a proposition is even considered on behalf of the man who defies the world order?

“They are giving new meaning to the cheap words, but it’s just words. By the way I and senator Nunn predicted everything what Vladimir Putin is doing. And I predict that Mariupol will be the next. But it has the utmost serious implication of the breakdown of world order which has been in place for 70 years. This is really the long-term danger associated with Vladimir Putin’s aggression.”

And so, do you think we should strive for a new world order or preserve the one that was before?

“If Vladimir Putin is not checked, then you cannot return to the old world order. And so, it is incredibly important point in itself that the implications for the future are even graver.”

Do you have any estimates on the oil price trends? For how long the price would remain at this low level and what role it plays in determining Kremlin’s policy? For Ukraine, it is an important factor of influence on Russia.

“I think it hurts his economy but Putin’s popularity within his country is still very high. In other times in history dictators with domestic problems have become more aggressive in their expansionist provocations and aggression in order to divert the attention of the people of the country. So, some people believe that Putin is even more dangerous with a bad economy.

“The longer Vladimir Putin can get away with it, the longer he will behave in this fashion. If there is a new solidarity then I think it can break his ambitions. But I don’t see that. That’s why I am so depressed.”

Therefore, do you mean that this factor is unlikely to change Putin’s behavior?

“If you look at win and loss column, it is much heavier in the win part. We have now acquiesced Crimea, we now no longer talk about shootdown of an airliner, we made no response when he immediately violated the ceasefire in Donetsk… So, from Putin’s point of view he is doing pretty well.”

And what if the oil price changes?

“If prices of oil decrease, he will have some difficulties. Yes economically they are going to have significant economic difficulties. I often said Russia is a gas station, masquerading as a country.

“But will that be sufficient to dissuade him from his ambition in Novorossia? So, till we wake up, till we understand Vladimir Putin for what he is, what his ambitions are, we will continue to see further Russian aggression.”

What about the possibility of the Keystone Pipeline construction in order to direct more pressure on Putin?

“Yes. In fact, the United States is energy independent. I think, the only way the Europeans will really stand up to Russia is when they have independence from Russian energy. Until that you are not going to see much.

“If we pass the pipeline we could be of assistance in getting energy to Ukraine. But President Obama just vetoed the bill. I’d like to say that overriding majority of American people support the pipeline. And sooner or later they will succeed.”

We are located in Russian vicinity and we can plainly see how effectively it exports corruption to Europe, using it as a kind of weapon of its own. Can the US help uncover it and wake the Europe?

“Everything is possible when we have leaders who are willing to take those positions. This president is not. I’ve got to go, I have a hearing. Could I just say a word?”

Certainly, if you please.

“I just want to mention one thing. There is no one of us who do not love Ukraine and we’ll never stop until we see a free, independent, and prosperous Ukraine. And it is heart breaking to see what is taking place. There is enormous concern and support for Ukraine among the American people. These are difficult and hard times, but I know the Ukrainian people will never give up their struggle for freedom and independence. And that certainly means to be free of Russian domination.”

What can you say about the idea of acknowledging Ukraine as a major non-NATO ally? Or, alternatively, signing a treaty like the one between the US and Japan?

“There is a partnership program that we could inaugurate in Ukraine. That has to do with initial stages of movement towards the membership of NATO, but also European Union membership is very important.

“That what would be passed by Senate requires presidential leadership. I am sorry.”