“Europe’s destiny is here, in Ukraine”

Member of the European Parliament Sandra KALNIETE and Head of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the parliament of Latvian Republic Ojars KALNINS came to Ukraine on February 20. Both of them were wearing black ribbons on their jackets as a sign of mourning for those who were killed in Maidan. Though they had numerous meetings with Ukrainian colleagues and visited Maidan, they agreed late at night to give an interview to The Day.

Sandra KALNIETE: “I bought it myself because yesterday, when I learnt there’s some sort of truce and tomorrow (February 20) will be the day of mourning I immediately decided that I will bring it because that is a tradition – you wear it on that day and for both of us it was a complete shock when we arrived in Kyiv and first news we got from our car driver was that eleven people are killed. This is something that is difficult to imagine that on the day of sorrow, which must be a very reflective and peaceful day, something like this can happen. This is uncivilized.

Ojars KALNINS: “I might add that in Latvia today at 5 p.m. there was a memorial service in front of the Ukrainian embassy. One of the organizations called for it and I don’t know how many people came but I’m sure that there was a big turnout because the people there are following the events very closely. When they learnt that Sandra and I were here we started getting calls – both to find out what’s happening, but also people were concerned about our safety.”

“MAIDAN VERY MUCH RESEMBLES THE BLOODY JANUARY IN 1991 IN RIGA, WHEN WE WERE BUILDING THE BARRICADES AND WERE READY TO DIE”

In your opinion, will Ukraine go back to the path of democratic development?

S.K.: “Very much depends on the decisions that will be taken by the Verkhovna Rada. We are not informed how far they are but we see the opportunity to change the current constitution back to the previous one by some transitional period, but also change the government on some transitional legislative basis which can become a political regulation of the current crisis and conflict because the most important is to stop the violence. And the fact that foreign ministers of France, Poland, and Germany spent an entire day here negotiating with those who are responsible and who still have power to stop the violence is very important. They even decided to stay for the night to become a sort of guarantee against violence. We both went to Maidan an hour ago to see how people are preparing themselves to the worst, to stand till death and it very much reminded me of bloody January of 1991 in Riga when we had barricades and we also prepared to die. There is also something very common in that feeling because we were living that period of barricades without fear. This is a sort of festivity when we are joining in a very-very strong community. I remember I was acting as foreign minister as our foreign minister was sent abroad in case we crash then he will represent the government in exile. I remember the feeling when we were inside that barricade-closed part of old city. There was no fear and we really felt like brothers and sisters and we witnessed this also in Kyiv.”

O.K.: “Before we came here we heard many political scientists say that Ukraine is facing a civil war, that it is a divided country and one thing we heard a lot today was that it’s not true – it’s the people versus the government. The majority of people in Ukraine want western lifestyle, values. It’s not Russia versus Europe – it’s a corrupt government, it’s lack of representation. The other thing is seeing how unified the people are. The scent of patriotism, the love for Ukraine – that’s very important and that’s just frustrating for us. We wish Europe and the West could do more to help.

“The other thing that surprised me and Sandra we were told that the three foreign ministers who are here are the only foreign politicians in Kyiv today. More people need to come to see for themselves.”

“WE ARE NOT FORCING ANYTHING IN UKRAINE, WE’RE OFFERING OUR HELP”

But Russia, by the way, says that many Western politicians have been visiting Ukraine, and this is an intrusion into home affairs of Ukraine.

O.K.: “First of all, if the West is responsible for this unrest they must be invisible, they must be doing it in a very sneaky way because you don’t see their presence at all. Unfortunately, in Latvia we still have people who are more sympathetic with Moscow and they will continue to support that line.

“Two days ago in the Parliament we had a resolution passed to condemn the violence and call for killing. European Affairs Committee and Foreign Affairs Committee agreed, but the opposition party, which is the Russian party, would not vote. Although in January we had the whole parliament condemn the violence when only four people were killed. But I see more and more that people criticize the European Union for not doing enough. I don’t hear people criticizing Russia for doing too much. We get blamed for not solving the problem, but Russia is creating the problem and this is the thing that I don’t understand in Europe they get more blamed because obviously they are contributing to rebel.

“I think for us in Latvia it’s important – we have to help educate the rest of Europe. The Portuguese and the French don’t necessarily understand what’s happening here, they are farther away. They are more concerned about Northern Africa, Egypt, Libya, Syria which is understandable. What I’ve always tried to do is remind them that Northern Africa has problems but Eastern Europe is European. Africa is not European, they do not want to join the European Union, they want money, they want help. But you are Europeans, we have a common history, so we need to help you join us.

“I understand, you have economic problems and you need assistance. We are not forcing anything in Ukraine, we’re offering our help. The other thing I want to say is that from the Latvian people there is a great humanitarian concern about here. People want to help. We have a lot in common, and it’s just painful to see people being killed. That’s got to be the first to be stopped and the political solutions can come later.

“That’s very frustrating to see political leaders who feel that their being in power is more important than lives of people on the streets. When Yanukovych ran for the presidency last time he promised that Ukraine would move towards the European Union. In November when he changed his mind he basically betrayed his voters. He is now reason for dividing people, not uniting them. If he was a true patriot, he would step down.

“But in many European countries when leaders are democratically elected and they realize they can no longer lead, they resign. Even our prime minister, who was a wonderful prime minister, Valdis Dombrovskis resigned because he wanted to take more responsibility for something he actually didn’t have responsibility for.”

“IT’S MONEY THAT TAKES PRECEDENTS OVER DEMOCRATIC VALUES WHICH IS RATHER SAD”

S.K.: “For instance, even example with Arab spring. If we look to all those countries who went through it, the only successful more or less is Tunisia. Their governing elite were prepared to the dialog and they adopted a new constitution and a lot of other legislation which was a response to the expectations of the nation.

“If we are getting back to Russia, I am personally worried about what we will have when the Olympic Games are over because that is a rather critical moment which will free Russia’s elite from the necessity to pretend to be at peace. I’d be very vigilant for that period. Secondly, no one is analphabetic, illiterate in geopolitical games – it’s absolutely evident that Russia with pressure against Armenia, especially against Ukraine, is trying to recreate a new line of geopolitical division between the two worlds and the endgame of this is Customs Union, which as an equitable partner to negotiate with the European Union. That is the part of the vision of the free trade zone between Lisbon and Vladivostok. It will not be so simple because we are a union based on values which means also that we expect that our partners respect them and also observe them in our trade relationship.

“Here in Ukraine is destiny of Europe. If Europe loses Ukraine, then Baltic States will be very exposed to pressure from Russia, the same could be said about Bulgaria and the whole limit of border countries.”

Do Paris and Berlin understand this?

S.K.: “No, they don’t. If I compare what was their understanding a year ago, so improvement is present there. At least, I hear from my colleagues, the members of European Parliament, they realize that it’s not about Ukraine, it’s about Europe what is going on here in Ukraine.”

O.K.: “I fear that in some parts of Europe, even if they do understand what is happening here in Ukraine, they are more interested in trade and economic cooperation with Russia. It’s money that takes precedents over democratic values which, I think, is rather sad. Counties should have a free choice and it’s unfortunate that Russia feels that it’s either or, either with us or with them. There’s no reason why Ukraine could not move towards integration with Europe and still have close ties with Russia. I think it’s bad for the Russian people and it’s terrible for Ukraine because Europe never said that you can’t be with Russia or have close ties.”

“WE HAVE SUFFERED UNDER BOTH: NAZI AND THE SOVIET OCCUPATION”

I have read that the Latvian Parliament is going to approve the law on denial of Soviet occupation. When will this law be approved and why is it important for your country?

O.K.: “It is still being debated in the Parliament. This is an issue because we feel that Stalin is equal to Hitler, that Soviet occupation is the same as Nazi occupation. In most European countries it is illegal to deny that there was a Holocaust. For us it is painful because we have a part of the population who deny that there was an occupation. We have a country next door, Russia, which says: no, you willingly joined the Soviet Union.”

What is the reason? Maybe, people don’t know history, especially the one connected with the Soviet occupation?

O.K.: “I think the Latvian people understand that history well. Unfortunately, a part of our population that reads Russian newspapers and listens to Russian politicians, they don’t listen, they don’t look at our history, they see it differently. We have a lot of Russians who don’t even speak Latvian or English, they only know the press that comes from Russia.”

S.K.: “This issue about the criminal responsibility for denial, disinformation about the communists’ crimes is a very hot subject in Europe. European commission provided a thorough report on memory, legislation and education on the crimes of totalitarian regimes, including also the crimes of communism. And on basis of that evidence seven member states adopted criminal charges for those who deny communist totalitarian regime. So now Latvia is on the way to adopt a legislation which already is in place in many other European member states. It is important because we have suffered under both: Nazi occupation was five years and the Soviet occupation fifty years.”