TOP.net

Myroslava Gongadze, who left Ukraine four years ago and has been living in the United States, flew to Kyiv recently.

After a meeting at the Office of the General Prosecutor of Ukraine, Myroslava Gongadze told the Ukrainian TV Channel Tonis that the prosecutor’s office and the task force investigating the Gongadze case have new information about her husband’s murder. She insists that the Melnychenko tapes have to be forensically examined. This could be done in the United States, but for this to happen General Prosecutor Sviatoslav Piskun must meet with Mykola Melnychenko in the US: “Melnychenko’s involvement in the forensic examination is of principal importance because he is the only one who can explain how the recording was done.” Mrs. Gongadze says the General Prosecutor assured her he intends to visit the United States to conclude the investigation.

Meanwhile, the situation with the Melnychenko tapes is becoming more convoluted. The number of “owners” of the ex-major’s tapes is rising (together with the level of distrust in their authenticity?). On April 14 Aleksandr Goldfarb, head of Boris Berezovsky’s Foundation for Civil Liberties, and Yuriy Felshtinsky, a historian, testified at the General Prosecutor’s Office. Both were interviewed as witnesses in the Gongadze case. (The Foundation for Civil Liberties recently declared that it has Mykola Melnychenko’s tapes and is prepared to submit them to the Office of the General Prosecutor of Ukraine.) “We handed over the material evidence in our possession, in keeping with a published list of all items. After that Felshtinsky and I were asked to give testimony and we recounted everything we knew in regard to the case, including our relations with Melnychenko,” Aleksandr Goldfarb said in an interview with Interfax Ukraine.

Myroslava Gongadze comments on the subject of Melnychenko’s tapes and their authenticity, and the way Ukraine is viewed across the ocean in the following interview, courtesy of www.glavred.info

“I KNOW THAT THIS COUNTRY HASN’T CHANGED”

Myroslava, have you discovered anything new in Ukraine?

Myroslava: Honestly, I’m in a state of cultural shock, but unfortunately it’s not a positive one. Perhaps it’s just what I’ve seen after spending a couple of days here, but everything seems so gray... I don’t know, I just feel out of sync and it’ll probably take some time before I get the feel of things.

How long has it been since you left?

Myroslava: Four years. It’s early spring here. Maybe that’s why everything is a bit of a shock for me. I’m disturbed by what I see. The reason is not so much that I haven’t been able to communicate a lot. It’s the faces I see on the streets, the buildings and streets, the way they look. This is more of an aesthetic impression, but it makes me feel depressed.

But many people say that Kyiv looks better.

Myroslava: Like I said, it’s how I feel; others would feel differently, of course.

When you were coming from Boryspil, what were you expecting? What was your mood?

Myroslava: I was eager to see Ukraine after all these years, the changes that may have taken place. But when I stepped up to the customs counter and the officer asked in Russian, “Where did you come from?” and in such a tone, I realized that my country hasn’t changed yet.

What were you expecting?

Myroslava: I was expecting to hear something like Pryiemnoho perebuvannia v Ukrayini! — Welcome to Ukraine, we hope you enjoy your visit! Unfortunately, I didn’t hear anything of the kind. I didn’t see any smiling face. Then I saw the number of media people at the airport. I was shocked and I cried. I didn’t know what to do; should I follow the usual passenger route or escape through a back door?

Did people come out to meet you?

Myroslava: Yes, but there were so many cameras, so many questions being asked.

You said once you didn’t trust Piskun. Before flying from the US to Ukraine, you said you wanted to meet with him.

Myroslava: I have flown to Ukraine to meet with everybody and find out about the progress on the Gongadze case; after all, I had limited access to information in America, except what I could find on the Internet. I believe that most Ukrainian politicians are still unaccustomed to discussing things freely on the phone; they’re afraid their lines are bugged, so I had to make this visit. My task is to see what has actually been achieved in the murder case, and what could be done to make Melnychenko’s tapes public knowledge and added as material evidence. I’ll also consider certain proposals from the Ukrainian side, including the possibility of living here.

“KUCHMA AND LYTVYN BOTH KNEW THEY ORDERED THE MURDER”

So have you met with Mr. Piskun?

Myroslava: Yes, and I’ve met and worked with the task force investigating the case.

Do you think these people can solve the case?

Myroslava: Yes, I do. I’ve taken part in certain investigative procedures and I know that these people are really trying to solve the case, so I feel optimistic, more or less.

Did you hear President Yushchenko say that the case is nearly solved, that the killers have been found, and that those who ordered the murder would be brought to justice shortly?

Myroslava: Of course I did, but I don’t believe the “nearly” part. Solving this case will take a long time; there are just too many nuances to take into account, many investigative procedures to conduct — all this complicates the process, especially the Melnychenko tapes. I don’t think that Mykola Melnychenko will be willing to hand them over to the Office of the General Prosecutor of Ukraine, and I believe that the tapes should be forensically tested in the United States. The investigative task force should fly to the US and cooperate with the FBI, but this requires a number of arrangements on both sides. From what I know, the FBI and the Ukrainian Prosecutor’s Office are willing to do just that (as the General Prosecutor has assured me), so the tapes will be added as evidence in the cases.

Are you in contact with Melnychenko? Are you on business, friendly, or partnership terms with him?

Myroslava: I’m in contact with him and I think that we’re on friendly-partnership terms. I’m willing to make every effort to have the tapes added to the case. It’s a matter of principle. I’m trying to understand his personal and legal stance. I’m also trying to figure out a legal way out of the situation. I can sense that he’s still cornered, but when I talk to him, I can also sense that he’s prepared to have his tapes submitted for legal forensic examination, that he’s willing to give testimony, that he’s willing to help; I have no reasons to distrust his intentions.

It’s just that we have many interviews to the effect that Melnychenko offered his tapes to other people.

Myroslava: That has absolutely nothing to do with this case. I don’t give a hoot about who ordered the killing, or who paid for it. All I really want is legally to establish the voices of Kuchma, Kravchenko, Lytvyn, and Derkach on the tapes. It is important for me to prove the tapes’ authenticity and the existence of these voices, to identify them. I am interested in this context. I don’t care what he sold to whom, what kind of relationships he may have had with Berezovsky or Tom, Dick, or Harry. All I want is to get the recordings that relate to Gongadze accepted as material evidence.

On whom does this depend?

Myroslava: Melnychenko, in the first place, and the General Prosecutor’s Office. All it takes is for the General Prosecutor and Melnychenko to say yes. The rest, getting them together, is simple.

Why do you think he never made any tapes public after your husband’s disappearance? Has he offered any explanations?

Myroslava: There are decoded versions of these tapes after my husband’s disappearance, including Lytvyn and Kravchenko discussing my conduct, and Olena Prytula’s — it’s a fact; you can hear them laughing, telling each other how she and I looked; everything is there.

What do you think made them focus on your husband?

Myroslava: This was already after his murder. They were involved, there’s no denying the fact. The media were in an uproar, so they had to discuss this, especially since both Kuchma and Lytvyn knew that they had ordered the murder.

Did Melnychenko say anything about your husband’s name being mentioned before the tragedy?

Myroslava: Sure. Kuchma said Kravchenko should be used to solve the Gongadze problem.

We remember your first interviews, where you made aggressive statements about Lytvyn.

Myroslava: I never made any aggressive statements; I simply stated facts — that’s all. I have no aggression toward Lytvyn or anyone else.

Do you have any reason to believe that Lytvyn sicked Kuchma on your husband?

Myroslava: He is one of them. Derkach was also there and he was directly involved. I don’t know which of them incited Kuchma to make the kind of statement he did, but both of them were there. The tapes make it clear that Kravchenko tried to be careful; he wanted to make the whole thing legally acceptable. Kuchma asked, “What’s happening in general? Can this be done? I’ve told you...” To which Kravchenko replied, “He [Gongadze] has submitted an inquiry to the General Prosecutor.” To which Kuchma replied, “Yeah, every assh... writes to the General Prosecutor.” Kravchenko replied that everyone has a right to do this, but then added, “I’ll take care of this, I have top pros.” On that particular occasion Kravchenko told him that there was a very energetic investigating officer, maybe the head of a militia precinct, who had started digging too deeply into the case in connection with this statement, and that he’d had him transferred.

Pieces of the corpse that was unearthed at Tarashcha were submitted for forensic testing two months ago.

Myroslava: I don’t know anything about this.

Really?

Myroslava: I know that there’s some kind of forensic examination underway and I’ve just received official confirmation of the fact.

Do you trust the new Ukrainian government?

Myroslava: I wonder why everyone is pestering me with this question. They keep asking whether I trust Piskun or anyone else. I trust no one. I’ve forgotten what the word “trust” means.

Assuming there must by a starting point for trusting anyone or anything, what would be such a point for you?

Myroslava: Facts. Solving the case.

Did it shock you when President Yushchenko said that the case has been solved?

Myroslava: I was more amazed. I don’t think that such statements should be made by a head of state. On the other hand, I thought it was a good sign, in a way. It was good to hear the president say that he was prepared and willing to have the case solved and made public, but it was wrong in legal terms; it could be regarded as political pressure; as a lawyer, I understand that the defendants may use this factor for their benefit — and I wouldn’t want this to happen.

Did you follow Yushchenko’s visit in Washington? How are they responding to this and other gestures made by the new Ukrainian government?

Myroslava: In fact, I covered his visit as a journalist. He was accorded a great welcome. They regard him as an opportunity to change Ukraine, as a way to this country’s big future and progress. But everybody expects concrete deeds. He must prove that he is effective, that’s the main thing. The nation elected him. That’s great and everybody feels happy about it, but it’s time to prove his ability to bring about changes in Ukraine.

I was in Congress at the time. I’ve never seen anything like it. They were standing and applauding, shouting YUSHCHENKO! YUSHCHENKO! They were wearing orange neckties and scarves. I was very impressed. I can’t think of another political leader who was welcomed like this.

“I’M INTERESTED IN POLITICS AND DIPLOMACY”

Have your friends’ attitudes to you changed in any way? Have they changed?

Myroslava: I don’t think so. My friends have remained friends. The same is true of my political partners and colleagues. No changes there.

Political partners?

Myroslava: I mean people like Borys Tarasiuk, Ihor Hryniv, and Viktor Pynzenyk. We’ve remained friends and partners. Also, Oksana Hriaznova, Hlibovytsky, and many others.

While you were in the United States, did you follow their political and other careers?

Myroslava: Of course. Informationally, I lived here.

What about your former mother-in-law?

Myroslava: I haven’t spoken to her since I landed in Kyiv.

Are you on friendly terms with her?

Myroslava: Yes, I call her on a regular basis.

So you know how she’s been, what she’s been doing?

Myroslava: Yes, to an extent, considering that I haven’t visited her for four years. I know that my father has been visiting her, keeping her supplied with food, and so on. She has health problems, especially after the last visit to the General Prosecutor’s Office.

What about your plans? If you decide to stay in Ukraine, what line of business will you prefer to take?

Myroslava: There are two possibilities that interest me: politics and diplomacy.

What kind of politics? Getting a seat in parliament?

Myroslava: Yes, at the Verkhovna Rada.

Have you made any arrangements, like getting your name on a roster? Do you intend to join Yushchenko’s party?

Myroslava (laughing): No one has discussed this option with me.

Do you intend to speak with Yushchenko during your visit?

Myroslava: Yes, I do.

When?

Myroslava: I’ve discussed the possibility with Poroshenko and Zinchenko. They promised an appointment as soon as Yushchenko returns to Ukraine, perhaps some time between April 16 and 18.

Is it true that Borys Tarasiuk has offered you a spokesperson’s post with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine?

Myroslava (laughing): I’m not confirming it.

But you aren’t refuting it, either?

Myroslava: No comment. I’m more interested in politics. Also, I’m not sure I want to stay in Ukraine.

How did the children react to your trip to Ukraine?

Myroslava: They cried. They told me it’s a terrible country where people get killed. They are having a hard time getting over this attitude, this fear. I constantly tried to convince them, especially Nina, to meet with Viktor Yushchenko. Nina would cry and tell me that he must be in pain; that God saved him, but that he feels bad because he has to appear in public with his disfigured face. But in the end, they met and Mr. Yushchenko gave them some books. He told them, “Come to Ukraine.” They were happy, so everything’s OK. But this will be a difficult decision for them. In thinking of my future, I have to think about my children first of all. So far I haven’t convinced them.