“If we compare the money invested by Russians in mass media abroad and the achieved result, it is a failure”

There are few journalists in Europe who have been studying the Ukrainian reality so deeply and for so long. French journalist and writer Alain Guillemoles has been following all major events of Ukrainian history during the past 20 years. Besides articles, he also writes books. One of them, Meme la neige etait orange: La Revolution ukranienne (“Even the Snow Was Orange. The Ukrainian Revolution”), is dedicated to the Orange Revolution. Some of his books have been translated into Ukrainian. Recently Guillemoles was one of the guests at the Book Arsenal, and now he reports on events in eastern Ukraine. In his conversation with The Day, he told about the way he thinks the Ukrainian society has changed in the past years, what domestic media should pay attention to, and how Europe’s reaction to the events in Ukraine should be evaluated.

I know that you have been following the developments in Ukraine for many years. What are the common features and differences between the Orange Revolution and Euromaidan? Was Europe’s response different?

“This is a very interesting question, since these two movements have absolutely different origins. The Orange Revolution was started by politicians and only then supported by people. Instead, during Euromaidan it was the people who forced politicians to act. Besides, the national question lay at the core of this revolution. During the Orange Revolution mostly political slogans were voiced, which appealed to the political leaders, for example, ‘Yushchenko – yes!’ Instead, people at Euromaidan were united by the national anthem and slogans appealing to the nation and Ukrainian history, like ‘Glory to Ukraine! Glory to heroes!’ Back then people held orange flags, and now you could see blue-and-yellow ones. Besides, Ukraine itself has changed over the past 10 years. It grew up, the civic society became more mature, today it plays the crucial role and is driving the whole country. Free media have appeared and taken root in Ukraine. These are very positive tendencies.

“As for the reaction of the international community, today people are talking about war, which was not the case 10 years ago. Even though what happened in Instytutska Street, could have happened back then, too. There was a moment when Berkut fighters from Odesa came, and SBU forced the police to act according to a power scenario, that is why there is something similar to Euromaidan. But this scenario was not implemented back then.

“It cannot be said that the reaction of the West is very visible and clearly outlined today. There is a certain paradox. On the one hand, European countries and the US do not want to talk too loud about these events for fear of annoying Russia, but on the other, it must be admitted that there are some real actions. Let us remind that sanctions were not even discussed after the war in Georgia in 2008, and this causes great anxiety. If the reaction had been tangible back then, perhaps, the current situation would have never arisen. Today sanctions are imposed. There is certain cooperation in the military sphere, the G8 Summit was canceled. Of course, the measures could have been broader, then the effect would be more visible. But it is good to have at least this.

“Unfortunately, today Ukrainians lost respect for state institutions and the judiciary in particular. They have not been functioning properly 10 years ago either, but now the situation is even worse. For example, despite all the problems, people respected the Constitution. Then it underwent several amendments, not very well thought-out at that, which caused a corresponding attitude towards this document. The same situation is with the judiciary system, we have seen too many political trials of late. Let us remember that it was possible to settle the situation in 2004 thanks to the court, that is, judges did enjoy a modicum of respect on the part of society. Today it is out of the question.”

In your opinion, how adequate are French media in covering Ukrainian events? Is Ukraine’s voice heard in Europe?

“Ukraine now is one of the main topics of French media. For example, 10 or 15 years ago, it was virtually absent from the discussion. Great progress took place during this period, but it cannot be said that Ukraine’s voice sounds loud even now. It should be admitted that Ukraine’s opponents have solid representation in the French media space and they greatly overlay Ukrainian position. Today Ukraine is much better represented through the actions of the civic society, rather than politicians. In particular, Ukrainian intellectuals and artists are much better known in France than political figures. Of course, a lot of work still needs to be done, but such presence of Ukraine in French media is a significant achievement.”

Is the influence of Russian media, especially those financed by the state, that strong in Europe?

“It is true, Russia does invest a lot of money in its mass media. There is Russian television and press agencies in France. But if you compare the amount of money invested in this doubtless enterprise and the results achieved, it is a failure. Russia’s policy in French media is portrayed in a very negative light. After the events in Crimea, Putin’s image has undergone significant changes. People who considered him to be an authoritarian democrat, like Peter I, do not think that anymore. The images of Russia and Putin have been destroyed, and it is not even about the money, expensive advertising will not help a low-quality product. Thanks to the Internet, every person has access to information now. Maidan activists, who had very limited financial resources, have done much more for the creation of their country’s positive image than the Kremlin has done for Russia. Perhaps, it is only because they had a nice ‘product’ that was easy to ‘sell’?”

In an interview to Den in 2009 (see issue No. 108, June 26-27) you said that the quality of Ukrainian mass media has significantly increased, and pluralism has appeared. What is your assessment of its development during the next several years?

“This interview took place before the previous presidential election. Just like everyone, I believed that political and cultural achievements of the Orange Revolution would be preserved. But then Yanukovych came to power and this became a great disappointment, because all those achievements turned out to be very fragile. A lot of them were forfeited. This is a lesson that must be remembered. Ukrainians need to realize that no one ever has a right to take away what they have achieved. You cannot entrust anyone with your freedom, only Ukrainians themselves, only the civic society can preserve it, but not politicians. Despite five years of Yanukovych’s rule, Ukrainian media maintained their freedom, and now they have much more of it than Russian media. This is one of the factors that made Euromaidan real.

“I watch Ukrainian media as much as possible, and I see that they contain very few articles about life in the province. And this is a bad thing, because readers who live in a small town or a village do not recognize themselves in articles about Kyiv. This is one of the things that weakens the national identity. People relate themselves more to the regional, but not to the national identity. It is a great pity, and I am shocked that at the rallies in the East you can hear shouts ‘Donbas! Donbas!’ They feel more like residents of Donbas, but not citizens of Ukraine. I think that this is partially explained by the fact that they do not recognize themselves in the national media. Mass media is like a mirror, but they see a reflection they do not fancy.”

But besides shouting “Donbas! Donbas!” they also shout “Russia! Russia!” Do you think this separatism is a natural phenomenon, or was it constructed by external forces? Can it be compared to similar phenomena in Europe, for example, to Corsican separatism?

“Of course, this separatism is not natural. The events in France can hardly be compared to what is going on in Ukraine. I think this problem is caused by the misunderstanding among the residents of the East. The population there is politically passive. These people travel less, they see less of the world in comparison to those who live in central or western Ukraine. I was in Kharkiv recently, and I was shocked to see that mass mentality there changed very little since the Soviet times. It was curious to see young people who did not live during the Soviet era, but were holding flags with ‘USSR 2.0’ written on them. This is the reality. People should be accepted the way they are. They are Ukrainians as well. You must talk to them and find ways to coexist peacefully. Not all of them are separatists. A lot are just afraid and do not understand what is going on in Kyiv. If Kyiv remains inactive, Russia can use this fear and turn people against Ukraine. Real steps must be made right now, there is no time for procrastination. If time is wasted, the chance for a dialog will disappear. I live in the south of France, the climate is very dry there, and fires are common in summer. But the locals say that if you act in time, the problem can be settled with one glass of water. In 15 minutes, you need a whole pool of water, and in an hour, all the water in the sea will not be enough. The same can be said about the situation in Ukraine, it is time for rapid action. Politicians, public activists have to go to Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv, organize roundtables and talk to people. At the same time, dwellers of eastern Ukraine must be invited to the western part, to the capital, so they can see there is no chaos and fascists there. At the moment, they believe Russian mass media, which show a distorted picture.”