A year of disaster and triumph

Den traditionally sums up outgoing years. 2014 was a particular year with a lot of tragedies, reconsiderations, and changes, which forced us to look into our contemporary history and ask: why did this happen, what are the outlooks for the future? This is the subject of an interview with Den’s editor-in-chief Larysa IVSHYNA.

“THIS YEAR WE CAN SUM UP AT LEAST A TWENTY-YEAR PERIOD, FOR 1994-2014 IS A FULL CYCLE”

Ms. Ivshyna, how would you sum up the past year?

“This is the first time in contemporary history when you can cast a glance at and appraise the whole road we have gone. This year we can sum up at least a twenty-year period, for 1994-2014 is a full cycle – from the inception of an oligarchic clan system (by no means indispensable for Ukraine) until the beginning of its collapse, which was, at the same time, a great shock for this country. We found ourselves under fire, lost some territories, and saw the death of thousands of people. The system is gradually dying, but its ‘gangrenous tail’ is still trailing and trying to infect the future. All depends on the extent to which we will appraise what has happened to us in the past 20 years – where we missed our high-quality alternative, what lessons we must learn, and where we must take a firm stand. 2014 was a year of disaster and triumph because the Ukrainian people showed their viability and inner strength in such a way that it became clear: a new Ukrainian character type has come out on the proscenium of world history.”

You have repeatedly emphasized that “in 1999 there was a president but there was no people, and in 2004 there was a people but no president.” It is just the time to analyze what or who we lack today, after the 2013-14 events.

“In 1995, well before all kinds of clan-based mafia-type structures took shape, I said: ‘We did not escape from a prison camp to get into a ‘den of thieves.’ I would like to say this again because, unfortunately, this happened. We got into a ‘den of thieves’ where underworld laws, cruel and cynical anti-rules prevail. Even our media looked like underworld ‘placard newspapers.’ In all these years, when an immature national organism, which had just fallen out of the predatory empire’s mouth, was absolutely defenseless, Ukrainian society was subjected to defilement. It was deliberately corrupted under a hypocritical slogan – a ‘social deal between the upper crust and the grassroots,’ as a well-known media person used to say.

“I categorically denied this at the time. There was no deal like this – it was just imposed on us. For the upper crust wanted to appropriate post-Soviet property and steal billions, while the others had to live in the conditions where bribery and a black economy ruled supreme. All this was being done to wipe off any alternative in the future as well as the people who could say later: ‘I did not take part in this.’ Even then we could see the judiciary stick to the mafia slogan ‘Everything to friends, the law to enemies.’ How many people had their backbones broken in the literal and figurative sense! Very few people, who were taking a firm stand, have survived. And it is quite a good sign that their voices were louder this year. The show of an attitude, particularly at the 1+1 TV channel, can be explained in any way, for example, by inter-clan disputes or business conflicts, but the point is that the truth is now standing a chance to be heard.

“All these contradictions lasted so long and the poisoning was so systemic that many people are still wondering if things could have been different. So, those who remember this have a special duty to inspire faith in the weak. There must be a link between those who survived then and those who are young today in order to ward off retaliation, a new counterrevolution. Indeed, there was a president but no people in 1999 and there was a people but no president in 2004. Then, for quite a long time, there was neither a president nor a nation. And now it is important to see a Ukrainian nation that really deserves to have better leaders. But this will cost quite an effort, particularly in order to modernize the national character.

“For quite natural reasons, the Soviet authorities could put up with the myth of Cossacks. But the intellectual and aristocratic trends were totally eliminated. We can see this in today’s Ukrainian parliament. No matter how strong the Maidan’s creative impulse may be, we cannot do without political representation. We must cultivate wise representatives of our own people. Yes, we can temporarily invite foreigners, although I view this as a maneuver rather than a wish to make some qualitative changes, but we should think about the future – how to achieve an intellectual and aristocratic trend without posing it against that of the people.”

You said a new Ukrainian character type had come to the foreground during the latest events in Ukraine. But is it represented in politics?

“There were people of the Maidan and people of the Maidan’s stage. The people of the Maidan are mostly at the front now, whereas the people of the Maidan’s stage are in parliament. But parliament is also showing the prototypes of something new. I don’t think we should wish to see an ideal immediately – the main thing is to see and increase a fraction of good. All those who are in power today, were formed in a warped reference frame. And we cannot demand that a ‘dwarf birch’ turn into a ‘mast pine.’ We must be patient enough and, at the same time, uncompromising.

“Of course, we can’t see so far that our politicians are aware of this. The proof of this is the documents they draw up. For example, humanitarian policies and culture are the last in the Coalition Agreement. But the absence of a humanitarian policy was one of the factors that brought Ukraine to a disaster. I am absolutely convinced that we must not economize on culture. You know, the more difficult the situation in a family is, the more starched the tablecloth should be. This is Ukrainian style. You should not lose heart, you should not sow disbelief. You should produce and spread out more light, kindness, and warmth. For we have no other options. For very many people in the world believe in Ukraine. Never before has this country had a chance to show itself from the best side as it has now.

“I consider the loss of territories a disaster because Ukrainian politicians had no right to allow this result. Moreover, there was an alternative. Russia, a very dangerous and insidious enemy, is much weaker now, but it has not abandoned its intentions. Ukraine used to win thanks to the courage and heroism of its people, but it also used to lose – not on the battlefield but in office rooms. It is important to remember George Shevelov’s words about the three enemies: ‘Moscow, provincialism, Kochubei-style attitudes.’ All the Ukrainian politicians, most of whom haven’t the slightest idea of Shevelov, must know this. The three enemies are still here. One should know how to fight them. There should be a program of actions to respond to each of these challenges. A well-known politician once said that, before becoming president, one must study all the factors that caused Ukraine to lose independence in the past.”

“AT THE SAME TIME, THE WAR GAVE UKRAINIAN OLIGARCHS A GOOD CHANCE TO TURN INTO UKRAINIAN PATRIOTIC BUSINESSPEOPLE”

One of the past decade’s problems was the way to earn money. It is high time we learned to do this differently. How can we put those who have made big money on a civilized footing? What is your recipe?

“The unnatural relationship between our authorities and business has brought forth mutants, not businessmen. Some of them are already feeling this burden and suffering, in a way, from this. If they could turn the clock back, they would have perhaps behaving differently and become civilized businesspeople and this country would not be burning in fire today. Paradoxically, the present-day fire is supposed to camouflage Ukrainian oligarchs as well as the Putin regime’s crimes. At the same time, the war gave Ukrainian oligarchs a good chance to turn into Ukrainian patriotic businesspeople. Those who have not missed it are the first in line for condonation, and those who have let it slip are risking.

Placard by Andrii PRYIMACHENKO using ЕРA/UPG photo

“The problem is in the political will of the leadership –whether or not it feels this deadly challenge. What we considered obvious and used to explain to Kuchma, Yushchenko, and Yanukovych for many years was as clear as day. But they turned out unable to understand this, for they are living in a different reference frame. Today we are appealing again to all the wise: dear friends, please, use your influence, for if they miss this chance, this country will be ‘cannibalized for spare parts.’ Yes, we have good neighbors in the west and the south, but they will only be good as long as we are standing on our two feet. But we are standing not so firmly. So, we must understand that civilized, patriotic, and responsible business is the only choice for us. When our president was introducing the prosecutor general, he cited Lee Kuan Yew’s recipe for friends: ‘Start with putting three of your friends to jail. You definitely know what for, they know what for, and people will believe you.’ These words can, of course, be said over and over again, but if [the government] proves to be unable [to solve the problem], this may breed a new revolutionary situation.

“We are now, to some extent, in the following situation: the Revolution of Dignity, on the one hand, and humiliating counterrevolution, on the other. If you are under the IMF’s total control, this means you are absolutely unable to tackle financial problems. Inviting foreigners to assume ministerial offices shows that the government ignores the lessons of its past and cannot see its own real reserves – the people who know how to do things. Does is take a Herculean effort to invite our own people? This will be an extraordinary team which is aware of all risks. We do not prefer a particular oligarch, knowing that what was born out of the1990s’ bubbling foam was not Aphrodite. But we also know that those of them who help the armed forces and volunteer battalions, who have drawn a line under their past, are the first pass to the future.”

The vast majority of these oligarchs are also media tycoons. Their channels covered Euromaidan events in different ways. Back in February you asked an important question: “Can we see the Maidan’s victory in the broadcasting grid?” Now that the year is finishing and there are a few high-profile projects, such as “Brave Hearts” (1+1), can we say that TV has adequately responded to the challenge of times?

“Not exactly adequately, but some changes still have occurred. Something ‘flickered’ in the stylistics of some channels, but very little. ‘Brave Hearts’ has indeed made a major breakthrough here.

“I must emphasize that 1+1 launched a series of political programs at the end of the year, which reanimated the long-forgotten topic of the murder of journalist Heorhii Gongadze. The fact that this failed to cause a stir among the public shows that, in spite of revolutionary upsurges, Ukrainian society still remains insufficiently active in the key matters. It is of little wonder because many efforts were made to distract attention, heap up the information space with unimportant things, and create simulacrums by way of banal bribery.

“The arsenal of each oligarch comprises now not only ‘serf theaters’ – his own media outlets and political parties – but also ‘moral authorities’ and home-spun public activists. How can an individual know their way around here? Every time he or she runs the risk of being blown up on these ‘expert minefields,’ for you can see on TV a person who makes a good impression on you, but you don’t know what is going on under the game table.

“I hate to hear it said that Europe is tired of Ukraine or, as an expert said recently, ‘Ukraine behaves like a teenager who breaks with his parents.’ These people use absolutely wrong words and terms to describe the Ukrainian situation because I think they are living in a world that is totally unaware of what Ukrainian history is.

“Den not only criticized the post-Soviet governmental ‘outhouse,’ which was eventually plundered and set on fire, but also tried to design a reliable building for the future. We explained that the foundation should be built out of the ‘bricks’ that have survived from all the periods of our history. At the same time, we should use new tools (it is not mere chance that we say that our newspaper is in the 7D format) to create a new reality. We must learn all the new, up-to-date, and positive in the world, without forgetting to modernize the national character. For we were too long under the spell of false myths about us. We must get cleaned of them and come to know our own self.

“I often recall a scene from the old film Cinderella, when the wicked stepmother instructed her before going to the royal ball: ‘Tidy up the rooms, wash the windows, polish the floor, whitewash the kitchen, weed the seedbeds, plant seven rose shrubs under the windows, grind coffee for seven weeks, and… KNOW YOURSELF! So this ‘know yourself’ is an extremely useful thing. Cinderella did not need this, for she did not betray herself and was precisely in the image that she needed. This eventually led her to success in life. But Ukraine does need this, and it has not yet done so. It has already done the needful, even more than that. But it failed to know itself. And once it knows, it will surely find itself ‘at the ball.’”

“COURAGE AND WISDOM ARE THE TWO COVETED WINGS FOR THIS COUNTRY. COURAGE IS HERE, BUT WISDOM IS STILL TO BE GROWN”

Our experts and politicians often quote you without referring to authorship. For example, I’ve heard the phrase “The Donbas has been leased out,” which I think is the best description of the factors that led this region to the current situation, from at least four people. I’d like you to develop this idea now. Is it realistic and, if so, under what conditions to regain the Donbas?

“The Donbas is a sore point because, above all, it is a collective fault. For me, the reference point is not the fact that this region was told in the Soviet era that ‘coalminers are a race apart.’ Yes. It was so. They were paid very much. They were provided for better. That was part of that system. The proletariat was in the focus. But still these people came to the referendum in 1991 and said in their simple proletarian terms: we do not want to be with Moscow, we want to be part of independent Ukraine. The same occurred in Crimea. And, further on, this ‘credit’ was placed on the account of Kravchuk, to a lesser extent, and, to the greatest extent, on that of Kuchma who has been clinging to Ukraine since 1994, and then on the accounts of Yushchenko and Yanukovych.

“It is sometimes very difficult to condemn former rulers because this means to appraise your own self. I’ve asked many people: do you understand that those who voted for Kuchma in 1999 chose the war? But even if they understand this, they do not want to speak of this.

“The key problems of the Donbas were abandoned long ago. And the people who could have given the region a totally different chance were made short work of. We cannot but recall the murder of Yevhen Shcherban. This political assassination triggered a chain of sorrowful events.

“Speaking of this dramatic responsibility for the Donbas, we should say that this happened due to the mistakes made by all the politicians who wielded power in Ukraine. So, now it will take political wisdom to reestablish control over these territories. Centrifugal forces in the Donbas will not stop unless there is a clear-cut plan of reintegration.

“On the other hand, if we are able to restore all the best, we will need a high ‘point of gathering.’ We should begin with the times of common law and the Law of Magdeburg and couple this with the energy of young people, new characters, who have shown their worth. Then Crimea and the Donbas will again wish to be with us. I am absolutely convinced of this.”

You once said that 2014 was for you, to some extent, a year of “relief” because all your most terrible forecasts had already come true. All that you foreboded and tried to warn of and caution against has taken place. But what do you feel now? What is your forecast for 2015?

“We are in a steep dive. But we have not crashed to the ground, which means that we must rise and train. First read a thin booklet, then a bit thicker one…”

And then The Power of the Soft Sign.

“Yes (laughs).

“The fact that society has definitely proved to be viable inspires hope. We should mix the environments of courage and of wisdom. It pleases and moves me very much when I see our soldiers at roadblocks read the newspaper Den. They do so not only because they have nothing else to read. They say they would easily drop reading trash and pulp because they are on the line where life and death meet. It is important that the people stationed there do not want to read what heaps up 90 percent of our market.

“I don’t think I should forecast anything because there are no obvious preconditions for a sudden change. It is no accident that Den has proclaimed 2015 as Year of Yaroslav the Wise. We have done so to mark the 1,000th anniversary of his successful rule and, naturally, to feel his aura of wisdom. Courage and wisdom are the two coveted wings for this country. Courage is here, but wisdom is still to be grown.”

By Ivan KAPSAMUN, Alla DUBROVYK, Vadym LUBCHAK, The Day