William TAYLOR: “I hope Mr. Bush comes to Ukraine, but not before the elections”

Does the US believe that Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada is legitimate and that the political crisis has been resolved? Has the crisis affected relations between Ukraine and the US in any way? These and other questions are answered in the following interview with William TAYLOR, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the USA to Ukraine.

“I DO NOT QUESTION THE PRESIDENT’S WORD”

Mr. Ambassador, you must have received a note from President Viktor Yushchenko on the illegitimacy of the Verkhovna Rada. Do you consider the Ukrainian parliament legitimate?

“What is obviously legitimate is the deal made by the president, the prime minister, and the Verkhovna Rada speaker. We are all very glad that the three leaders reached an agreement. Holding an election on Sept. 30 is, naturally, part of this deal. The three leaders also agreed on how to hold these elections in a lawful, constitutional, and peaceful way. In our view, this plan of action appears to be fully legitimate. As for the details of how this agreement will be fulfilled, we understand that the ball will start rolling when at least 151 Verkhovna Rada deputies resign their seats. This raises the question of how this should be done. Who should announce it, what is the role of the Verkhovna Rada speaker, and what is the role of the Central Election Commission? And these kinds of detail should not be commented on by outsiders. All we can say is that we are glad that an agreement has been reached on how to legitimately head into the new elections. We can only encourage all the sides to move in the projected direction.”

Do you consider the note lawful?

“Well, I do not question the president’s word. I attended the president’s briefing last Wednesday. He explained his stand with clear and carefully-worded phrases. The president said that the deputies had completed their work, as far as their powers as members of the Verkhovna Rada of this convocation are concerned.”

“IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE AGREEMENT BE IMPLEMENTED”

Do you think the crisis in Ukraine has been resolved?

“I think it has. The agreement that the president, the prime minister and the speaker reached outlines a way that is peaceful, democratic, and constitutional. Naturally, it is important that the agreement be honored and implemented.”

What would be a sign that the agreement is being honored? Would it be holding the elections on Sept. 30 or maybe some other event that should take place before this date?

“Naturally, an important component of this deal is the resignation of at least 151 deputies. This seems to be the case, although reports are circulating that some parliamentarians have changed their minds about this. One way or another, it will be important that at least 151 MPs, or even more, do this.”

The Ukrainian media reported that David Kramer, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, and William Miller, former US ambassador to Ukraine, visited Ukraine during the crisis. You also had meetings with the representatives of all parties to the conflict. Did the US play any role in reaching this agreement?

“The US has been speaking with all sides in the government and all the representatives of the opposition. Every time our people from Washington visit us, they also meet high-ranking Ukrainian officials. This happened when David Kramer came and this also happens in other cases. In other words, we try to seize every opportunity for these kinds of contacts. As for the US role in reaching this agreement, I agree here with the president of Ukraine. The Ukrainians arrived at this agreement by themselves.”

“THERE WERE MOMENTS WHEN WE FELT SERIOUS CONCERN”

Has this crisis affected relations between Ukraine and the US in any way?

“The United States government in Washington, as well as its representatives here, was closely watching the unfolding crisis. We said repeatedly: we hope Ukraine comes out of this crisis as a more democratic, more united, and more European country. There were moments when we were concerned that Ukraine might ride out this crisis without gaining more democratic features. We were also worried that potential clashes, in which interior ministry forces could take part, might leave Ukraine less united. Since we are firm supporters of Ukraine’s movement towards Europe, we feared that such dubious actions of the opposing sides in the heat of the crisis might make Ukraine less attractive to Europe. In other words, there were moments when we felt serious concern. This is why, as I said earlier, we are very glad that the three leaders reached this agreement. If any lessons have been learned from this situation, which will help Ukraine become more democratic and united and come closer to Europe, all this was worth it.”

“UKRAINE IS A DEMOCRACY THAT IS MOVING TOWARDS MATURITY”

The US and the EU showed restraint vis-a-vis the situation in Ukraine. But Russia’s leader said that Ukraine was heading toward “tyranny.” Can this phrase be taken seriously?

“I would not like to comment on Russian statements. I heard Russia’s Ambassador Chernomyrdin saying that the statements of Russia’s top leadership are no joke. Our view is that Ukraine is a democracy that is moving towards maturity. The Ukrainian people are expecting and demanding from their government that the country remain on this democratic path so that Russia as well as other countries in this region can see how the democratic process should unfold.”

In a wide-ranging interview, Putin said recently that if some countries meet democratic standards, this means they are serving somebody else’s interests, mainly American.

“I think it is in the interests of Russia, the US, Europe and, of course, for Ukraine to remain on this democratic path.”

Then why is the US planning to cut its aid to Ukraine? Does this mean that democracy in Ukraine has strengthened to such a degree that it doesn’t require as much aid from the US?

“In a way, this truly is an indicator of the progress that Ukraine has made in its democratic development. But perhaps even more this reflects the position of Washington about concerted efforts to build democracy in some other regions of the world. We would like new democracies that are struggling for survival in other parts of world to achieve the same level of development as Ukraine. But we will continue to support Ukrainian democracy.”

“I ACCEPT THE IDEA THAT DEMOCRACY CANNOT BE IMPOSED FROM OUTSIDE”

Lately, many experts have been saying that democracy cannot be introduced by force in other countries, and they cite the example of Iraq. Do you think it is time to change the approaches to expanding or promoting democracy in other countries, especially in the Muslim world?

“I accept the idea that democracy cannot be imposed from outside. What we are trying to do in Iraq is to let the Iraqis decide by themselves. For them to be able to decide what form of government they need, we must provide them with at least some measure of internal security. It would be best if the Iraqis themselves could ensure this security. We and our coalition allies are working there to help achieve a kind of security that will enable the Iraqi people to decide what form of government they need.

“As you know, I worked in Baghdad for some time, and I can assure you that the Iraqis have their own opinion of what kind of government and what form of democracy they need.”

What exactly?

“They very much value the right to elect their leaders. I was there during one of the first elections in Iraq. Nobody knew on that morning if the Iraqis would be brave enough to go to the polls and vote. Everything began with one or two people at a time coming into the polling station. Then five or six, and finally all the Iraqis headed out in droves to the stations. There are a lot of challenges facing the Iraqis. But it is obvious that the Iraqis — Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds alike — want to freely elect their leaders.”

When do you think the Iraqis will have a level of democracy that will allow them to govern their country without foreign assistance and to ensure internal security?

“I think they are capable of ruling themselves. What they are still unable to do on their own is ensure an adequate level of personal safety for Iraqi citizens. I think the international community, including the US, should help them for some additional time, at least as long as they want to ask for this help.”

THE POLITICAL WILL OF UKRAINE’S LEADERSHIP IS THE KEY TO THE SUCCESS OF ANTICORRUPTION PROGRAMS

President Yushchenko recently urged the US and the EU to help combat corruption. Have you given him an answer yet?

“I made note of this request. I am pleased that the president has again emphasized that he is aware of the negative impact that corruption has on governmental structures and society as a whole. We are actually in the process of reacting to these queries: we are now offering 45 million dollars’ worth of anti-corruption assistance to the judiciary, education, and accountability of governmental bodies to the public.”

Does this mean providing additional funds apart from the above-mentioned 45 million dollars?

“Of course, we will want to see the way the programs already in operation are being carried out. Then we will see if any additional funds are needed. But in all probability, the political will of Ukraine’s leadership is by far the most important component of the success of anti-corruption programs. On our part, we can only issue calls for this. But this political will should emanate from the very top, i.e., the state’s political leadership.”

In other words, you see the will on Yushchenko’s part but not on the other part of the governmental spectrum?

“This should come from all the country’s leaders.”

Last year plans were made for President Bush to visit Ukraine and meet Yushchenko this year. Is Mr. Bush coming to Ukraine?

“I hope so. I doubt this will happen before the elections. President Bush usually visits countries after they have held a democratic election and have a stable government that works and has a program of action. I also think that President Bush would not like it to seem that the US government is involved in the pre-election process and the election campaign. It is a Ukrainian election, and Ukrainians themselves should be making their choice.”