Anatoly MATVIYENKO: “Open Politics Forum should announce a joint quest for a way out of crisis with a single candidate”

Since Anatoly Matviyenko only recently returned from a regular PACE session held on September 20—24, one of the questions, of course, related to ways of European economic development and Ukraine's place in the process.

A. M.: Regrettably, I have to admit that Europe now feels no need for anything in Ukraine. In fact, it makes no difference whether Ukraine exists or not. The President may talk all he wants about Ukraine's integration into Europe, but the actual results of our foreign policy are deplorable. Leonid Kuchma, for example, makes a big deal of his good relationships with the Polish President. However, due to his magnanimous gestures, Ukraine has opened its market and now that our industries are practically at a standstill we supply manpower to Poland, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Had Mr. Kwasniewski done one-tenth for Ukraine of what our President did for Poland, I would personally kiss him more than once.

Hard as we tried, we could not find any aspects that would make Europeans interested in Ukraine as an equal partner. Unless we do, Ukraine will never be a full-fledged member of the European Union. That's a pretty sad but, to my mind, an objective conclusion.

The Day: How did PACE react to the Kaniv Four statement? We know that the President and Foreign Minister declared the message was sent to the wrong address.

A. M.: Their declarations are either outright lies or the result of not knowing PACE's functions. In both cases they demonstrate the level of our executive branch. You know, there are two ways to conduct a debate: showing one's high intellectual level or trying to lower the opponent to one's own. I think the latter is the case. In reality, just as the committees and the Assembly's Bureau were at work, their leaders and PACE's head Russell Johnson stated it was necessary to respond to the Kaniv Four's message most seriously, since it dealt with violations of the Constitution, other laws, and human rights in the course of the presidential campaign in Ukraine. Of course, what happens in Ukraine seems absolute madness to any European lawmaker. Back home they would not even dream of rigging elections or in any way violating the freedom of speech. They do not understand the banana republic level of our democracy. More so, they were shocked when all members of the Ukrainian delegation, Left and Right, unanimously confirmed that what the Kaniv Four reported was true. We did not rule out the possibility of any candidate winning the campaign but stressed that it must be a fair victory that will strengthen Ukrainian democracy. Now that practically all the candidates but one are barred access to the media and Leonid Kuchma is being constantly lauded, any fair play at the election is out of the question. Finally, the Assembly's Bureau (attended by the heads of all national delegations and PACE leadership) resolved to dispatch a parliamentary commission from among the PACE Monitoring Committee, meaning lawyers and media experts. I think this delegation will have an opportunity to objectively assess the situation in Ukraine and offer its findings. I also think that it is important to realize that all our actions, since we are striving to become European, must be evaluated from the standpoint of European democratic principles.

The Day: You head the Open Politics Association. This association came up with the idea of uniting all democratic forces. The first forum took place and you are planning the second one. What are the objectives and what have you already accomplished?

A. M.: I think that all political parties, except perhaps the Communists, are puppets on strings. I am not trying to humiliate them, but all these puppets are divided into two categories. One is manipulated by its leader or a handful of ambitious figures. The other takes orders from the regime and the latter uses them as a front to demonstrate what is supposed to be a politically structured society. It is thus very important to have really strong parties in the Left and Right centers, ones that will not take orders from anyone, but will solve the problems facing this society. Our objective is the setting up of an alliance of democratic Right-centrist parties. I want to awaken national consciousness not in the sense of national identity but embracing the entire Ukrainian nation. The presidential elections call for unity. The emergence of the Kaniv Four is an illustration of this process. I think that the four should agree on a single candidate and make it clear who will be President and Prime Minister.

The atmosphere of terror thickens; 1937 comes closer as the regime is getting increasingly out of control. This is very serious and must be opposed. The Kaniv Four, made up of the most charismatic personalities, whatever our attitude toward each of them, must assume responsibility for the domestic situation, call on our society in the name of accord and constructive work. If they do, it won't matter much which of the four becomes President or Premier. Today, we must drag Ukraine out of the abyss and then we can determine which turn to take, Left or Right, to go forward. The instinct of self-preservation must mobilize the public thought which will inevitably produce positive changes and raise the people's spirit.

There is the aspect of confused uncertainty about the Right Center. Not all of us can support the Kaniv Four, for a variety of reasons, meaning that they can't actually serve to strengthen Leonid Kuchma's positions. This is very dangerous for those people and for the state. Kuchma's reelection would be a national disaster and his own personal tragedy. If we consider ourselves morally sound we should warn him against pushing himself into an abyss and prevent this country from following him there. For this reason, we must enhance the Right Center and unite on this platform. We are preparing the second forum and discuss the possibility of nominating a single candidate. Allowing for the Kaniv Four, I think that this forum should announce a joint quest for a way out of the crisis, perhaps with a single candidate, and I mean Yevhen Marchuk. In the first ten days of October we will hold our second forum and create a large bloc of national democratic parties and movements supporting this logic of the national democratic perspective.

The Day: After losing every election campaign the democrats can very eloquently and logically explain precisely why they have failed again. Who do you think will listen to such explanations after October 31?

A. M.: No one can guarantee anything. Many political “leaders” show political culture and level of perception that boils down to satisfying their own egos, pursuing their own ambitions, and never realizing that the national interests must be the highest priority in any decision. If the national interests emerge victorious, one's own interests will also be served. But if we regard the national interests as being of minor importance one's own victory will only be temporary and illusory, enjoyable as it might be. Sooner or later the national problem unsolved will lead us to fiasco, and the self-destruction in a society that is gnawing away at itself. It is impossible to build a normal life only for oneself, even if one is in the lead today.

On the other hand, this society has for decades been inculcated with a perfectly twisted mentality. It is almost in our genes. We must realize that a strong democratic party will never materialize unless it is truly needed by society. What makes your newspaper so strong these days? Its enlightening activity. This must be done. Otherwise the critical mass forming that demand will not take shape. And demand will bring forth the supply. The current regime's mediocrity is explained, among other things, by our own mediocre wants. Unless we raise this level we'll never have a political party capable of defending us. We say now that our elite has to wake up. We address it. Moreover, we educate it, forcing it to develop itself.

The Day: We often overlook the fact that Kyiv and the regions are different. Recently you organized a bicycle tour of Ukraine's Cossack centers. What was your strongest impression?

A. M.: I think that you will be surprised to hear what I am about to say. Of course, I could tell you about their misery, and even worse, about the populace being ill-informed. Yes, the situation is all that and more. This is the objective reality, along with unemployment, living from hand to mouth, being on the verge of a major social upheaval which has not happened as yet simply because people are still hoping for positive changes after the presidential elections. If no such changes occur we will go down the slope even faster, and I am afraid that the situation will get out of control. What is happening in Russia is a graphic example of which path we must not choose. But that's not what I am driving at. The main conclusion I made for myself is that we are now like tumbleweed as a body politic. Unless we are fully aware of our historical roots, of all that which was positive in our history, unless we build a link with our true history reaching back far, we will accomplish nothing. To destroy a nation, turning it into so many slaves, it suffices to sever that nation's historical ties, deprive the parents of responsibility toward their children, destroy the historical logic of truth and the sense of dignity. Everything relating to the Russian imperial period is built in our independent state in the form of fundamental, sturdy historical monuments, traditions, and culture. All this is held in esteem, even if by force of habit. Everything relating to the Ukrainian nation state, so very young but still a body politic, is being destroyed. I will give an example of this national policy. Go to Bohdan Khmelnytsky's grave which does not contain his remains. And we don't know where they are. Or when we see Ukrainian Hetmans on television, then Mykhailo Hrushevsky, and then we see Leonid Kuchma. We are not shown Ukraine's first President Leonid Kravchuk, even though he supports Kuchma. This cynical attitude vividly demonstrates the moral and cultural level of today's President and his team: self-aggrandizement and narcissism. Bohdan Khmelnytsky's empty grave is an analogy of our current state system: all the other attributes are present: the presidency, national emblem, Parliament, yet they cannot function as a single whole. Back of all this is void. Can this anarchy and one person's monopoly right be that which the generations of our forefathers had sought for centuries? I find this horrifying. And horrifying is the strongest impression I brought from our bicycle tour. Unless we change all this we will not be able to develop as a nation.

The Day: How do you feel about the President and regional functionaries signing the Declaration of Improvements in the State Regional Policy?

A. M.: It means radical changes in the Constitution currently in force. This is nothing but a conspiracy between Leonid Kuchma and part of the regional leaders (ones he appointed himself) aimed at holding fast to his office by delegating some authority to the regions. The declaration's pattern has nothing to do whatever with European standards of local self-government. Setting up a bicameral Parliament in Ukraine, with the other house formed other than by a legally prescribed referendum, actually means a coup d'etat following the Yeltsin-Lukashenka scenario. Today, all democratic forces must unite to protect the Constitution and territorial integrity of the Ukrainian state.