Wesley CLARK:

Wesley Clark is a retired four-star US Army general. He is a former candidate for US President and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander in Europe. Although not a public figure in the political sense, he is well known internationally. Mr. Clark visited Ukraine a number of times in his capacity as a NATO general. In the following interview with Ukrainian journalists, which Mr. Clark gave during his visit to Kyiv last weekend, he provides some solid answers to questions of immediate interest.

You already visited Ukraine last year. Before the presidential elections Kyiv hosted a number of eminent representatives of the US: George Bush Sr., Zbigniew Brzezinski, George Soros, and Henry Kissinger, among others. They were unanimous in telling us that once we held democratic elections we would see significant improvements in our relations with both Western countries and organizations. Although not without difficulty, the elections eventually turned out free and transparent. Yet one year later there are no visible improvements in Ukraine’s relationship with NATO or the EU. Why did this happen? Moreover, today Ukraine faces a new requirement. It is told that it can count on positive changes if it holds fair parliamentary elections. Will Ukraine continue clinging to such promises from election to election?

I hope not. We were enormously impressed with what happened last year in Kyiv. It was a remarkable expression of democratic changes. It sent a message to the whole world about Ukrainian people. As a result, your prime minister was recently in Washington and was very warmly received. I don’t have to imagine the alternative: you can see it yourself. But it is also true that transformation of Ukraine is a very complex problem.

You see how complicated things are for Ukraine. Much of your energy comes from Russia. The economy is trying to transition to a profit basis. The government is trying to transition from an existing bureaucracy into a popular democracy. It could take a generation.

One gets the impression that the US is more supportive of Ukraine’s NATO aspirations than individual EU countries. Do you agree that there is political consensus in the US as regards Ukraine’s accession to the alliance?

I think that people of the United States would like to see Ukraine in NATO. I think Europeans are closer to Russia, and they are concerned about Russia’s reaction, because Russia probably doesn’t want to see this. This means that Russia would face a different future. And there are still people in Russia who want to go to the past.

Unfortunately, Ukraine has politicians who try to capitalize on the popular sentiments by making statements along the lines of “Nobody is expecting us in the West. Why don’t NATO and the EU give Ukraine a clear signal that Ukraine is not welcome?”

I think these institutions will at some point send a message you are looking for. But I think you don’t need to wait for that message. It’s always nice to have it but remember: the basic principle of democracy is that you have to help yourself, and you don’t like it in any other way.

Many experts believe that Ukraine could join NATO already in 2008 if its reforms succeed.

I think it’s possible, but it depends both on Ukraine and on factors outside Ukraine’s control.

Experts also claim that Ukraine does not have as much time to learn from its own mistakes as did, say, Hungary or the Czech Republic. If Ukraine fails to fulfill its major commitments before 2008, would this mean that the door to the alliance would be closed to Kyiv?

Difficult to say. Probably you’ve read Shakespeare who says “There is a tide in the affairs of men.” The tide is running to bring Ukraine to NATO. It’s important not to miss the tide.

Under what conditions can a “fall of the tide” happen?

It’s always dangerous to speculate. Most events in the world are unforeseeable in the specifics. You have to work to stay on the path, but this is work to be done at every level: by the military, by the government, and by the business.

Can the presence of the Russian naval fleet in Ukraine stand in the way of Ukraine’s accession to NATO?

This is a long-standing quarrel. It would be helpful to resolve this quarrel.

However, Ukraine and Russia have an agreement whereby the Russian Black Sea Fleet will remain in Ukraine until 2017.

I know. And there is a reason why this problem won’t be resolved. I think it would be up to Ukraine and the West to examine these factors. And we’ll also have to work with Russia. If NATO membership provides Ukraine greater confidence, stability, and security, this has to be in Russia’s interests. It’s not directed against Russia. It will help Russia, because it should be in no one’s interests to have uncertainty and insecurity.