Leonid KRAVCHUK: “We stand a good chance of going to the presidential elections under the slogan of joint reforms”
Even though it is too early to assess the performance of the new coalition cabinet, the first decisions handed down by Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, her first statements, declarations, and edicts concerning the government’s actions are already outlining certain contours of the new government picture. What colors will prevail on this canvas — reformist or populist, tactical or strategic, black or white? Is the assignment of key government posts to big business people justified, considering that only yesterday Mrs. Tymoshenko was promising to expel them from parliament? Will the Presidential Secretariat, Cabinet of Ministers, and parliamentary coalition be playing on the same field, or will they try to trip each other up the way they did in 2005? The Day posed these questions to Ukraine’s first president, Leonid Kravchuk, who celebrated his birthday on Jan. 10, joining those who wished him many happy returns. Even though he is not directly involved in the game of politics, he remains a markedly scrupulous arbiter.
Mr. Kravchuk, it would be interesting to hear your opinion of the first steps, decisions, and statements made by the new prime minister and her team.
I think that the decisions made by the government, as well as the budget, which is solving quite a few social and even historical problems (like the refunding of the Savings Bank deposits) are praiseworthy. These acts are aimed at strengthening people’s confidence in the government. There is another aspect. The government is trying to fulfill the promises that were made during the election campaign by politicians who are now in power. You know, perhaps for the first time in the history of Ukrainian independence our government is keeping its campaign promises. We will wait and see if these promises are kept, since there is a difference between planning and carrying out things. However, the fact that the budget envisages appropriations for the implementation of these promises inspires hope. If the current government honors all commitments assumed in regard to society, I believe this will be a truly good thing, and people will see for themselves that their government is becoming responsible.
So you believe that it is now possible to say that the bar of the government’s responsibility vis-a-vis society has been raised?
You know, I have a lot of free time to analyze things and arrive at certain conclusions; I read a lot and watch television. I have concluded that a politician without a sense of responsibility loses all his positive qualities, like professional skill, tolerance, high political cultural standard, and so on. In the case of an irresponsible politician, all these good qualities remain declarations and simply cannot be implemented. A government that embarks on the road of responsibility and abides by the law is an altogether different story. For me there are two decisive components: responsibility and observance of the law. The law and the constitution must be as important to any government as the Lord’s Prayer to a believer.
How do you assess Prime Minister Tymoshenko’s staffing decisions? In the heat of the election campaign she promised to separate government from business. Now we are seeing people directly involved in business being assigned important government posts.
A desire to separate power from business was first declared on the Orange Maidan. At the time I wholeheartedly welcomed Viktor Yushchenko’s desire because it was essentially correct. Power and business must be separated if we really want to overcome corruption. But even then I said that this was premature for Ukraine because of a certain aspect. They say that rich people, if they come to power, won’t use it to their own ends. You know, this is a purely populist assumption. They will do just that. Just as the joy of making big bucks knows no bounds, nor does the misfortune of making small amounts of money. Speaking of professionalism, I would say that we have few good cadres. We have many people who are truly dedicated to the Ukrainian idea, Ukrainian statehood, and Ukrainian independence. However, the proper discharging of ministerial functions takes experience. Therefore, I believe that we cannot do without people who have this experience and who obtained it the hard way.
Take Serhii Buriak, for example (the new head of the State Tax Administration — author). I have known him for a long time and even done some hunting with him. He is a young, well-educated, and cultured man. The impression is that his smile is quite natural. He is always smiling or laughing. I also know Vasadze (BYuT) well. His tolerant attitude to people is an example to me. These are people of modern culture. If a person with such qualities, such knowledge, and such an attitude to the state and the people is assigned an important post and performs effectively and responsibly, I see nothing wrong with this appointment. What is wrong is the principle of nepotism in the higher echelons of government: relatives, business, and power. When these criteria are united, this is bad for the country. When a person is assigned to a post and really wants to do something good for his country, he must be given a chance and we must see whether he can cope with it. I also know Dubyna and Khoroshkovsky well. Both are professionals. Khoroshkovsky turned into a serious politician before my very eyes. I went on business trips with him when he did not have any position and was taking his first steps in business. He was a young fellow who had taken a certain stand. Remember how he quit his government post when he realized that he would not be able — or would not be allowed — to properly discharge his functions? I would describe him as an individual of the modern wave. However, I have always been told to watch a person doing his job. Therefore, I suggest that we watch them doing their jobs first and judge them later.
Since we have broached the subject of the staffing of the new government, would you care to comment on Raisa Bohatyriova’s appointment as Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council?
I have known Bohatyriova since 1990, when she was elected to the first parliament. She was in charge of the Parliamentary Commission on Maternity and Childhood (now called committees — author). As the head of the Verkhovna Rada, I noticed Bohatyriova’s soft nature and judiciousness. She is not a cruel person. Remember that even during the last parliamentary campaign she was calling for a broad coalition, for unity and peace. She offered a friendly hand even to those who didn’t need one. Let me tell you frankly that I called her Mother Teresa, because taking such a mild and tolerant stand under such conditions is anything but simple. I believe that she will cope with her post as the Secretary of the NSDC because she has experience. The only thing I don’t understand is why Viktor Yushchenko chose to assign this post, which is the closest to the president, to a member of the opposing camp. They say this is part of the big game. Perhaps it is. I’m not sure. I know that when Ostap Bender made his first E2-E4 move during the chess game in Vasiuky, it was the right move, and everybody was watching to see what he would do next. All his subsequent moves were wrong, but everybody was wracking their brains trying to figure out his brilliant tactic. In reality it was his first game! Well, look at it from this angle. There are many things I don’t understand in this staffing game. There is no logic. Bohatyriova may end up helping her boss — Yushchenko, not Yanukovych — during the presidential campaign.
Who do you think stands the best chance of winning the next presidential race?
Tymoshenko received enough votes in the last elections, whereas the Regions and Our Ukraine won fewer than they had. I think that Tymoshenko has the kind of support Yushchenko had in 2004 on the Maidan. The situation with Tymoshenko is similar; she had support during the elections and she still has support. Relying on this support, she may pave the way for serious reforms. But if they embark on the populist road again, making decisions that are detrimental to Ukraine but attractive to the electorate, then the whole thing will burst like sewer pipes. Pardon the analogy, but now and then waste comes through in politics. However, in our case I guess we stand a good chance of going to the presidential elections under the slogan of joint reforms.
As to who has the best chance of winning the presidential elections, we need to know who will be nominated. Polls show that Yanukovych is in the lead, closely followed by Tymoshenko, with the gap constantly narrowing. President Yushchenko comes third. If these three take part in the race, I guess Yanukovych and Tymoshenko will be on home stretch. Still, we have a year before the elections and many things may change. For example, Roman Zvarych has repeatedly declared that Tymoshenko has said she is prepared to pull out of the presidential campaign. Well, that’s what Zvarych says. Has anyone heard this kind of public statement from Tymoshenko? Anyway, no one can deprive Tymoshenko of her right to run in the election.
Summing up 2007, many experts and politicians portrayed it mostly in dark colors, saying that the past year has brought nothing but political, economic, and other crises. It would be good to hear something optimistic against this pessimistic backdrop. What are some of Ukraine’s achievements in 2007?
The important thing is that in 2007 a coalition and government were formed in Ukraine. Any government, however imperfect, is better than no government. Anarchy is a terrible thing, so the formation of a government was an achievement. Another achievement was the fact that the elections were held. Whether or not they were necessary is a different matter, but it is undoubtedly to our advantage that we carried them out in a democratic way. Finally, the fact that Ukraine’s economy grew by nearly nine percent is also an achievement. Another thing is that we are still unable to straighten out our financial sector, the credit and banking system. Above all, I mean the monetary unit; inflation, the artificial price increase, and so on. From the fundamental point of view, we have examples of politics corresponding to the people’s interests. Nor do we have any miscalculations in our foreign policy, which would lead one to say that Ukraine has lost out on something. I can tell you with absolute confidence that we have lost nothing in the international arena. Rather, we tend to exaggerate our problems, which often simply don’t exist. Ukraine must embark on the European road and follow it. There is simply no other road.
